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  • #16
    Re: Loft 25

    I don't feel too safe around those projects. Sorry, but I'd rather not take a chance.
    www.shardsofglass.etsy.com, www.shardsofglassmosaics.blogspot.com

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    • #17
      Re: Loft 25

      Wow! They should be closed down, huh? I was on the Chelsea/Village Partnership for 6 years. we had a big meeting when then mayor Dinkins was trying to turn the Mariners Union building into a homeless shelter. The majority of the people attending were from the Fulton project and were very worried about the neighborhood getting even worse. For a while, a lot of the Dominican drug dealers in Washington Heights were being shifted down to the Fulton houses, but I think the former resident mobilized to correct the situation. So, you see, not all of the people there are low-class drugged up trash. The real problem does lie with the night revelers and the city is finally getting its act together and getting tough on the so called "clubs". I have been to the Roxy on several occasions and was shocked at the noise level in the street at 2 AM. The residents of the Fulton houses had to endure that for years.

      The new condo on 10th has a great view of the Clinton houses, and if they want to pay a few million for that, they are welcome to it. I personally think the architecture of the public houses stinks (as does the architecture of the new condo), but, they really appear to be maintained adequately in the past few years.

      I assume, by your handle. that you are a doctor. I hope your compassion is a bit better during office hours.
      roby2000

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      • #18
        Re: Loft 25

        You need to stop personalizing this "attack" on me. Roby2000- This has nothing nothing to do with compassion. My comments, however inarticulate, were (at least, intended to be) directed specifically towards the issues of crime in West Chelsea in the vicinity of the housing projects and towards the reality of a free-market economy. I'll explain...

        Don't get me wrong: We have a social obligation to help those who cannot help themselves. Good, honest, hard-working people fall upon hard times all the time. That's what the social welfare programs are for. As a bleeding-heart, socially liberal Democratic Blue-Stater, I'm totally in favor of public assistance. I feel that there absolutely [B]must be[B] opportunities for low-income, subsidized public housing. Agreed. And, NO--- I am not suggesting that all people who live in public housing are criminals or scum. Please! That's insane and insulting.

        What I was trying to write (but, typically, I wrote too fast and didn't articulate this well) is the REALITY that we live in an open society based on capitalism and the notion of an open marketplace. And the reality of free markets is that as certain areas increase in value, those who can pay, stay. Those who cannot, move out. After 18 years of living in NYC, I truly fear for the first time, that we are turning into a city where (very soon, likely) Manhattan will be a place for the very wealthy, and the rest of us are going to have to go elsewhere.

        ***I DON'T LIKE THIS ANYMORE THAN YOU ALL***

        My husband is a non-partner-track attorney (Read: earns less than some paralegals.) Both he and I worked hard to get to where we aren't today. I gave up earning an income through my entire 20's to become a doctor. And, sadly, I'm staring down over $200,000 worth of med school debt. If I made more than 1/2 of that per year as a take home salary, then fine-- there'd be no issue. But we take responsibility for this. We made these CHOICES for our life. We don't expect that Chelsea has to remain as affordable as it once was years ago, because "we deserve it." The neighborhood has boomed and we're being priced out. Sad, but true.

        Again, don't misunderstand me. I think the fact that two hard-working professionals living in NYC with no dependent kids still cannot afford a 1 bedroom apartment in this part of town is INSANE. Is is fair? I don't think so. But this is only what I think.

        I saw this happen when I lived in the West Village years ago, and when I got priced out, I moved to Chelsea in the early 90's, thinking it could never happen here. But now it has. But here's the thing, folks: I'm not complaining that I'm getting priced out. Okay- so I have to look elsewhere. Do I like that developers are throwing up skyscraper condos that only rich, white, straight yuppies can afford? Do I like the destruction of the charm of this neighborhood that has been my home for so many years? No, no, no. Not at all. But we live in a free market and the rule is: If you can pay, you can stay. If I can't, then I have to look elsewhere, unfair as that feels to me.

        This is what I was trying to say with regard to the multi-million-dollar "luxury" housing going up around the public housing in West Chelsea. The city has the right to close it down and relocate the residents to another location. I'm not saying they SHOULD, but they CAN do this if they see fit. Whether they would do something like this based on increased incidents of violent crime which is a documented fact (call 311, they can verify this) and/or whether that spike in crime in that vicinity is endogenous or more attributable to the clubs in close proximity, is irrelevant. It's not happening on 7th avenue and 19th. It's not happening at 22nd and 9th. It's happening in a 2-3 block radius of the housing units. I'm not drawing any conclusions about the PEOPLE who live there. I'm drawing a simply conclusion, based on facts, about the EVENTS that transpire there.

        I'm also suggesting that The City can (and, given it's financial woes) should think about doing this if selling the properties to a private developer would make the city more money. Yes, it would suck, suck, suck for the thousands of people who would have to be relocated. Is it fair? No. But life isn't fair, and complaining about it makes no difference. The reality is, that if you're on the dole, then you don't get to be choosey about where they city puts you. Again, unfortunate, but reality. If The City can profit from such a sale, and the result is increased real estate value (and, subsequently, taxes), then this is a huge source of revenue for The City, and that, in turn, will benefit ALL OF US as citizens of New York.

        I think people on CCYB.com looked at my "Dr" handle and made a huge amount of assumptions about me, my relative level of net worth and assumed that I was some sort of despicable, yuppy, white, republican who wants to shuffle the unfortunate and poor out of site so that we can have more Starbucks and yuppie bars in their place. Nothing could be further from the truth. All I was trying to point out is that, sadly, we live in a "Cash is King" world, and our country is the ringleader on this. And New York City exemplifies this concept. Again, is this the ideal? No. It's not. But it is the reality we live in.

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        • #19
          Re: Loft 25

          Sorry if I overreacted to your comments. I just sort of bristled because I hear that kind of thing from people who just use Chelsea for the "club" scene and don't like going past the projects at 2 AM. I have to agree though that IMHO, we are headed in the wrong direction here and will eventually homogenize into a white, upper class Manhattan, devoid of any history or ethnicity at all. I am pretty well insulated since I bought my apartment 25 years ago for about 15% of its current value. My maintenace is about 1/4 the market rate for rentals. I retired last year and paid off my mortgage, so I do not have that burden.


          But, still, I am seeing things like retaurants creeping in replacing former establishments with Tribeca like prices instead of the neighborhood Chelsea prices. Places like Raymond's, Casa Di Pre and Beatrice Inn are gone now. The Waverly Inn has become so exclusive they have an unlisted number and stratospheric prices. I treck over to the East Village, Chinatown, Brooklyn and up to Cathedral Heights more and more these days to eat a good meal without having to take an equity loan on the apartment. Thank goodness for senior citizen reduced fares.


          I often think that we should sell and move to a dryer climate like Sante Fe or Taos, New Mexico. Then the roof garden opens, and I change my mind. And I am not nuts about living in and out of a car to do everything so, for the forseeable future or until I'm forced out, here we'll be.
          roby2000

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          • #20
            Re: Loft 25

            I am so happy to have found this webpage! I recently moved into an apt. on W. 25th St. very near where the Lofts are being built. First I must say, that the construction of the Lofts, which goes on from 8a-6p Mon-Sat) is very annoying! It adds to the already huge amount of noise on the block.
            That said, I can speak first hand about the block as I actually live on it.
            The noise level is astounding..day and night. I agree with previous posts that many residents of the housing project are hard working good people. By far, the majority. However, there is a minority of people who have absolutely no regard for their neighbors. Groups of people, mainly in their teens and 20's, hanging out at night (ALL night) loud conversations, arguments, fights, cars parked with their radios blaring with the heavy bass on. This happens literally 2,3,4 AM!! It is a night mare. Also, every Saturday the residents have a side-walk sale (which is just fine), but there is one individual who is selling his CD's and he blasts his boom box from 9a-6p non-stop! It is so loud, I can be in the bathroom, with the door shut and the shower on and clearly hear the music. I have called the city's 311 line so many times they know me! The police do nothing about it. There are drug deals going on out front of the project in broad daylight, its really amazing to watch. The street is covered in trash most of the time. There are garbage bags dumped all over the place (not on trash days). Do I think the projects should be closed? NO. But, there should be more police activity in the area. This behavior should not be tolerated because it ruins it for ALL residents of this street!
            Now, on the weekends it becomes insane. And yes, it is the club traffic! It is unreal. 25th St. looks like a highway at rush hour. Taxi's honking their horns, cars blasting their radios, club goers walking down the street drunk and screaming even vomiting. This is every Friday and Saturday night!
            Now, if you walk across 9th Ave on 25th going toward 8th, you instantly enter a new world. Peaceful and quiet. This neighborhood could be like that if the police cared and if the residents of this street cared enough too. I have written my state Senator, City Council, the police, Commuinty Board 4...have not had one response from any of them! Its sad and frustrating. As soon as my year lease is up, I'm getting off this block! I like Chelsea alot, but this particular block...it stinks.

            Buy a 2 million dollar loft on this street? You'd have to be nuts!

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            • #21
              Re: Loft 25

              Hi "Irishdjd:"

              Welcome to Cyb. I would like to respond to some of what you posted and also, elaborate further on what I posted (after careful thought).

              First of all, I totally agree with what you said concerning 25th Street. I had a friend who lived at 412 for a really long time, and there were times that you couldn't hear yourself talk or think; both from the street noise, people noise, etc. There wasn't a summer evening that went by if we were hanging at my friend's house, that you couldn't hear a full-on conversation, lyrics to something blasting out of a car stereo which, I sometimes caught myself bopping or singing along with; or, just people calling for people upstairs in 420. My friend got so sick of that, she moved to Park Slope!

              Anyway, I also must agree that the drug dealing is truly an issue. I have seen it myself; many times. And, quite frankly, it probably would go on anyway, but I believe it is exacerbated by the fact that there are still clubs all up and down the area of 10th Avenue as well as east and west of 10th Avenue, that really bring it to a point of blatancy. (You know, the whole "stock and trade" thing. What a horror!) I further agree, that the cops sometimes don't give it as much of attention as it should be given. I see and hear them driving up and down the streets (25th & 26th Sts.), but it seems to be about presence more than action. What is the point of driving up and down when the problem is so pervasive? Presence is good, but action is so much better.

              That said, I just want to reiterate and add that I still believe the "muckity-mucks," what with their resources, etc. could really do so much more to improve the situation. But they are also the one's I find most complacent, especially, when it comes to complaining and following it up with some improvements they can well afford.

              Ah...it's that old addage, "...the Have's and the Have-not's." What a shame.

              Peace!

              "CC"

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              • #22
                Re: Loft 25

                I totally agree with you that the people with all the money moving in should pressure the city to DO more! There are those multi-million dolllar lofts on the corner of 26/9 and now the lofts on 25th. A friend of mine keeps saying when the lofts open things will get better. Unfortunately, I don't really think this will be the case. I'm trying to figure out how to keep my sanity living there...it isn't easy when not a single night goes by that I'm not awakened by some commotion outside.
                I'm actually thinking about finding some way to break my lease...and get my deposit back..or even sublet the apt.

                If anyone on this site has any constructive ideas on what to do, I'd appreciate hearing them!

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                • #23
                  Re: Loft 25

                  Originally posted by engldc View Post
                  I just purchased a unit in Loft 25 and I?m not too concerned about the public housing across the way. I currently live in London Terrace on the 24th Street side and I?ve seen so much development within a 3 block radius over the past year. There are so many luxury residential buildings (eg 200eleventh.com) and galleries (eg Chelsea Arts Tower) that have been built or are going up in the immediate area that it really doesn?t matter how long it takes to develop the High Line--the area has already changed dramatically.
                  Hi, former London Terrace 24th Street side neighbor,

                  So have you moved into Loft 25? I've noticed that you folks seem quite sociable, neighborly and community-minded! Lots of parties up on the deck, I have to tell you, though, as you may not be aware: When you have music, it's really loud. I live further down the block near 10th Ave. in 460 and I hear it. When I go to sleep while you're still having a party, I have to run a fan or other "white noise." If I can hear everything so loudly at 460, it must be even worse for the people directly across from you. Any chance you can have the DJ lower the volume in the future?

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                  • #24
                    Re: Loft 25

                    Wow Im shocked that you stated they should move the projects, Im sorry but the crime developes in the club on tenth ave where it originates from if you read correctly in the chelsea Now, they are not residents of the projects these crimes are from outsiders, I have lived here since 1964 and yes the gays have moved this way quite some time now and its lovely that they did, they are beautiful people. but dont blame the crime rate on the projects cause most of us that were actually investigated as we move in there in 1964 were white irish, hispanics, and blacks, and have seen each others children and grandchildren grow here most moved on into the Co-Op's, and most of us real chelsea born individuals are respectable educated and help develope this "HOOD" as you called it, dont take me wrong but I wanted to express my thoughts, god bless

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                    • #25
                      Re: Loft 25

                      "Im sorry but the crime developes in the club on tenth ave where it originates from if you read correctly in the chelsea Now, they are not residents of the projects these crimes are from outsiders... "

                      Who do you think is selling them drugs? If you remember, the dealer who was selling to the two FIT women who were recently arrested lived in the PJs. Also, 288 10th Ave is a known drug location. BTW - I think the clubs in the West 20s have ruined the neighborhood, and the patrons are reprehensible.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Loft 25

                        who do i think is selling these drugs? lol yes im sure there are a few bad apples here and there but you sound as if everyone in the PJs is a drug dealer lol.. anyway that one arrest was interesting cause if you get busted and reside in PJs your terminated. I know for a fact that most of the dealers live else where and know residents, yea it sucks that they choose to do there dirt here, but thats what all the camera's were placed for, but there not watched 24/7 like they should be. The club that is near that 288 Tenth ave PJ is a big problem and has become the nightmare of those residents there as well, they cant sleep those walls there are like paper they hear every car that passes and since they opened there all the car horns and crowds out there, I feel sorry for most of the residents there, its a nightmare.

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