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  • #31
    Re: Have you seen this woman?

    Dear Neighbours,

    Look, I am not a native and English isn?t my mother tongue but words like deportation and discrimination can also be used in a positive way. When a lady is chosen instead of a gentleman because she is a woman, we call it positive discrimination.

    Since I am a Dutch Jew myself and my entire family and community, back home in Amsterdam, was systematically segregated, deported, imprisoned, and exterminated in concentration camps and extermination camps, places where most people found death through slave labor, hunger, gas chambers and crematoria I fully understand what you?re talking about. As a survivor I came on my own, all alone, to New York.

    Tonight we celebrate Passover. Even in those most horrific places our families gathered and baked ?matzoth? and they declared praise to God for giving them freedom.

    The poor folks we are talking about are not really helped with a bowl of soup, and who cares if one of us feels good about supplying it to them. As neighbours and fellow citizens we have a responsibility to take care of those who are not able to make choices for themselves. It is just too easy that American society gets away with not helping these human beings who are lost on the streets with drugs and alcohol. The USA is the richest country on earth but s has other priorities.

    The ?healthy? ones among us must help the less fortunate, it is a holy task. Saying that is positive and far from discrimination.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Have you seen this woman?

      As neighbours and fellow citizens we have a responsibility to take care of those who are not able to make choices for themselves. It is just too easy that American society gets away with not helping these human beings who are lost on the streets with drugs and alcohol. The USA is the richest country on earth but s has other priorities.
      I agree. We should. But I don't think discrimination/deportation is the answer.

      Maybe rollback those taxcuts for the super-wealthy. Maybe use that money to help. Maybe encourage low and middle-class housing instead of throwing those people out like garbage.

      And as a European Jew whose family was in the holocaust, I would think you would be hesitant to use "deportation" as a solution.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Have you seen this woman?

        Originally posted by LongTime Resident View Post
        I agree. We should. But I don't think discrimination/deportation is the answer.

        Maybe rollback those taxcuts for the super-wealthy. Maybe use that money to help. Maybe encourage low and middle-class housing instead of throwing those people out like garbage.

        And as a European Jew whose family was in the holocaust, I would think you would be hesitant to use "deportation" as a solution.
        No, I am not hesitant to use "deportation" as a solution because it is the only way to really help them. I dealt personally with many less unfortunate folks and I have learned that there are people who lost their ability to judge what's good for themselves. Giving them a few pennies does not help. The NYPD Officers are in general kind and try to do what they can. They can bring them to the ER but that's where it ends. We must help these people and that means returning to them their ability to make choices. In the 70's and 80's folks like this were assisted but that changed under Reagan. Now it is time to fascilitate their needs and find the funds to really make a difference.

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        • #34
          Re: Have you seen this woman?

          In the 70's and 80's folks like this were assisted but that changed under Reagan. Now it is time to fascilitate their needs and find the funds to really make a difference.
          No disagreement from me on that.

          but again, Salomon, using the word "deportation" here doesn't go over well. as you can plainly see.

          You seem to believe that all these unfortunates are drug addicts, alcoholics, or mentally impaired. That is not so. Many are physically disabled, elderly and poor, burnt out of their homes with nowhere to go, single moms trying to find work....the list goes on. Some are families who have just been priced out of the market trying to hang on.

          I'm just curious....where would you like to "deport" those people to?

          Help. Deport.

          those words have two really different connotations. At least to most of us on these shores.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Have you seen this woman?

            Originally posted by Salomon View Post
            ...but words like deportation and discrimination can also be used in a positive way. When a lady is chosen instead of a gentleman because she is a woman, we call it positive discrimination...

            ...The USA is the richest country on earth but s has other priorities.

            ...We must help these people and that means returning to them their ability to make choices.
            You may be correct to say that in a clinical sense certain words have defined meanings, but one should always be cautious about context & as you see, despite Webster's guidance words take on new meaning constantly. For better or worse that is the nature of a 'living language'.

            As for the priorities of the US...where non-profit organizations that are sheltered under the guise of being established for "the public good" but are merely ways of dodging taxes while giving the nephew a phantom title with a 6 figure paycheck without a thought to the needy. I think I just heard that some huge national "charity" spent a mere 2% of it's budget on the needy & the rest went to salaries & Fez's.

            Priorities are truly distorted when charity becomes a tool.

            Once again regarding your premise that they can be "returned" to their ability to make choices, this may not be do-able no matter how much money is thrown at it. It calls for true compassion, concern & patience.

            CD
            Need computer assistance?
            See my Classified/Computer maintenance listing or send me a private message.

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            • #36
              Re: Have you seen this woman?

              Originally posted by LongTime Resident View Post
              No disagreement from me on that.

              I'm just curious....where would you like to "deport" those people to?.
              I am most certainly not referring to physically disabled, elderly and poor folks, and burnt out of their homes with nowhere to go, or single moms trying to find work. I am talking about folks like Tom, his brother, the lady who is called "this woman" and others who hang on corners of streets like our street.

              I love the American people but your use of language is so political. Yesterday a reported asked if the Attorney General was lying. The Senator answered: No Gonzales didn?t, he is an honest man who did not speak the full truth.

              Let it be clear that all I desire is help for these folks. Either they are send to a center where they can rehabilitate or any other way.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Have you seen this woman?

                de·port 1. to expel (an alien) from a country; banish.
                2. to send or carry off; transport, esp. forcibly: The country deported its criminals

                2. hand over to the authorities of another country; "They extradited the fugitive to his native country so he could be tried there"
                3. expel from a country;

                de·por·ta·tion

                : an act or instance of deporting; specifically : the removal from a country of an alien whose presence is illegal or detrimental to the public welfare

                I don't think there is anything "political" about the interpretation of the word deport. It is what it is.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Have you seen this woman?

                  Originally posted by LongTime Resident View Post
                  de?port 1. to expel (an alien) from a country; banish.
                  2. to send or carry off; transport, esp. forcibly: The country deported its criminals

                  2. hand over to the authorities of another country; "They extradited the fugitive to his native country so he could be tried there"
                  3. expel from a country;

                  de?por?ta?tion

                  : an act or instance of deporting; specifically : the removal from a country of an alien whose presence is illegal or detrimental to the public welfare

                  I don't think there is anything "political" about the interpretation of the word deport. It is what it is.
                  Thinking is an art!

                  The word comes from Latin deportare to carry away, from de- + portare to carry -- more at FARE
                  1 : to behave or comport (oneself) especially in accord with a code
                  2 [Latin deportare] a : to carry away b : to send out of the country by legal deportation

                  So you are right and so am I.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Have you seen this woman?

                    Salomon...if you prefer to use the word "deport" be my guest. But, I am not the only one who expressed dismay at the usage of that word in this instance. I know that you mean to say you want to help them. Just don't be surprised by the negative reaction you might get by saying you think "these" people should be deported.

                    Like you, I also lost family in the Holocaust. My father survived the pograms in Russian and watched his father and brothers' murders. I grew up with stories like this my whole life. Which brings me back to not quite understanding how you could use that term. I'm sorry if you think me equating it with Nazi Germany as CHUTZPAH but unfortunately, that is the memory it evokes. I suppose I could have said Stalin but one regime is the same as the next.

                    Salomon, I have pretty much said what I have to say and I am done with this conversation. I guess I will chalk up this disagreement to a difference in culture. I will still continue to do what I can to help, even if it's something as small as helping out at a soup kitchen. It may not change the world. Nobody cares if it makes me feel good. (except selfish old me, of course) It makes these folks feel like someone cares about them instead of just stepping over them. Or saying someone ought to help (as long as it ain't me and my taxes.)

                    Enjoy your passover sedar. Shalom Alechiem.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Have you seen this woman?

                      Originally posted by Salomon View Post
                      Yesterday she was arrested in front of 305 W 30th Street together with another crack head and drunk named Tom, a white fellow with a beard. He has been hanging on that corner for many years. His brother's face turned blue from one desease or another. I spoke to the NYPD officer who said that these folks refure any help and that they are impossible and refuse to go to the available shelters. The lady does not live on our street but she knows her way into the yellow building where she lodges from time to time. All these folks should be deported to a center where they can learn how to return to a normal life in this country.
                      Well, I have to agree with Salomon on a couple of things. First, and you guys should take notice, he said "these folks should be deported to a CENTER where they can learn how to return to a normal life in this country."

                      He did not say they should be deported out of the country or into some kind of internment camp! I understand that that's what most of us would hear when we hear the word "deport", but read carefully what he said and he was clearly saying something different from what we'd normally expect. English is his second language! And the other thing I have to agree with him on is that you CD and you LTR so heavily politicize EVERYTHING that it makes it almost impossible to have a rational discussion! It seems the minute you saw the word "deport" you went ballistic. You didn't try to understand what this Dutch national was trying to say in his adopted tongue.

                      I think it's quite clear that despite his usage of the word "deport" that he was only trying to think of ways to help people. Obviously what we're doing now, (which is practically nothing), isn't working. And the reason we're not doing anything (which isn't working) is because liberals cry that it's not up to us to decide for a mentally insane person that he/she should get help. They say, like you all have said here, "who are we to say they have a problem?" It's crazy! Of course they have a problem! And of course they should get help. And I agree with Salomon also - that they should get more help than just being fed at the soup kitchen.

                      I'm all for feeding the hungry. I do my share of volunteer work in soup kitchens. But it really doesn't do much for them. It fills their stomachs for the night, but that's about it. They're right back the next day. I volunteer there because it seems to be the most we're allowed to do to help. But I desperately wish we could do more. These poor souls who are for the most part drug addicts and mentally ill people - they really need our help. But thanks to liberal relativism, we're unable to help because we're not even allowed to say the have a problem! It's unconscionable.

                      I don't think Salomon meant to denigrate anyone for their volunteer efforts and I certainly don't. I commend all of you, LTR included for all the good you do - no matter how small - it's all important and it's all good. I think Salomon's point was that we should be doing even more. We need to get at the root of the problems not just the symptoms.

                      Oh and by the way - it's a myth that most of these people are there because their homes burned down in a fire or they got sick or they happened on a streak of bad luck. By and large the vast majority of them are there because of mental illness and drug and alcohol dependency. Of course it's not politically correct to say that. We're supposed to say it could be any of us. But the statistics show it really couldn't. How many houses burn down anyway!? Certainly not nearly as many as there are homeless.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Have you seen this woman?

                        That's indeed 100% in accordance with the points I tried to make. Thanks a lot for writing that in the way you did.

                        I regret that certain folks feel a need to politicize so much. And....it is not a good thing that certain folks do not realize the significant difference between the systematic extermination by the Nazis of the Jewish people and the horrors brought upon innocent folks by other regimes. How can one compare one thing with the other, it?s outrages.

                        Anyway, a million times thanks!

                        Salomon

                        Originally posted by tarmill View Post
                        Well, I have to agree with Salomon on a couple of things. First, and you guys should take notice, he said "these folks should be deported to a CENTER where they can learn how to return to a normal life in this country."

                        He did not say they should be deported out of the country or into some kind of internment camp! I understand that that's what most of us would hear when we hear the word "deport", but read carefully what he said and he was clearly saying something different from what we'd normally expect. English is his second language! And the other thing I have to agree with him on is that you CD and you LTR so heavily politicize EVERYTHING that it makes it almost impossible to have a rational discussion! It seems the minute you saw the word "deport" you went ballistic. You didn't try to understand what this Dutch national was trying to say in his adopted tongue.

                        I think it's quite clear that despite his usage of the word "deport" that he was only trying to think of ways to help people. Obviously what we're doing now, (which is practically nothing), isn't working. And the reason we're not doing anything (which isn't working) is because liberals cry that it's not up to us to decide for a mentally insane person that he/she should get help. They say, like you all have said here, "who are we to say they have a problem?" It's crazy! Of course they have a problem! And of course they should get help. And I agree with Salomon also - that they should get more help than just being fed at the soup kitchen.

                        I'm all for feeding the hungry. I do my share of volunteer work in soup kitchens. But it really doesn't do much for them. It fills their stomachs for the night, but that's about it. They're right back the next day. I volunteer there because it seems to be the most we're allowed to do to help. But I desperately wish we could do more. These poor souls who are for the most part drug addicts and mentally ill people - they really need our help. But thanks to liberal relativism, we're unable to help because we're not even allowed to say the have a problem! It's unconscionable.

                        I don't think Salomon meant to denigrate anyone for their volunteer efforts and I certainly don't. I commend all of you, LTR included for all the good you do - no matter how small - it's all important and it's all good. I think Salomon's point was that we should be doing even more. We need to get at the root of the problems not just the symptoms.

                        Oh and by the way - it's a myth that most of these people are there because their homes burned down in a fire or they got sick or they happened on a streak of bad luck. By and large the vast majority of them are there because of mental illness and drug and alcohol dependency. Of course it's not politically correct to say that. We're supposed to say it could be any of us. But the statistics show it really couldn't. How many houses burn down anyway!? Certainly not nearly as many as there are homeless.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Have you seen this woman?

                          No problem Salomon. You made some very good points, but for some reason some people get so caught up on particular words that they can't see the good intentions you had. I understand why they might get caught up on that word, but if they'd just think for two seconds and read closely what you said, it would be easy to see that you didn't mean it in the way a native American (and I mean US by that phrase!) would mean it.

                          It's pretty clear that everything everyone has said here was only meant to help people who are much less fortunate than us. I know LTR has a real heart for these people and goes out of her way to help them in whatever way she can. And I think from what you've said you only want to help them as well. It's funny though that for some reason they couldn't see that you only meant well - as well! Oh well. I hope they can see it now.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Have you seen this woman?

                            Everyone seems to have gone on some kind of tangent. What about the lady?!?! Any updates? I've seen her recently doing the same routine of walking up and down the street. She needs a makeover or something. So she doesn't live on the block? Hmmmm...

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Have you seen this woman?

                              Dear friend:

                              No you're wrong because she does reside in the yellow building on the south west side of our street. She used to live in a homeless shelter but had fights with other homeless folks and difficulties sticking to the rules. I gave her at her request money for new stockings but she still runs around in the same pair. May the Lord give her the wisdom and strength to get a better life.

                              Originally posted by Talking Lady View Post
                              Everyone seems to have gone on some kind of tangent. What about the lady?!?! Any updates? I've seen her recently doing the same routine of walking up and down the street. She needs a makeover or something. So she doesn't live on the block? Hmmmm...

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Have you seen this woman?

                                yes talkin lady i guess u noticed what i noticed

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