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Taking a smoke break right outside your job

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  • #16
    Last time I checked smoking was legal

    I am a little surprised to see such a strongly worded thread against people who are engaging in a perfectly legal activity. The originator of the post claims to be "burned" by careless cigarette smokers on a daily basis? My goodness, you must have ended up in the nearest burn unit by now. Silly, just silly.

    As far as there being "no escape" for outdoor cigarette smoke, that assertion flies in the face of reason as well.

    And, if someone who had an aversion to cigarette smoke was working for a company which employed smokers, I'll bet they'd rather the smokers go outside to smoke than to light up inside. I mean, what are these people supposed to do, take a rocket to Mars every time they want to smoke? Maybe we should count how many times we see employees in Starbucks suckin down a java during the day, and "out" them as well to their employers. There are risks associated with caffeine intake, you know, and some people simply gag at the smell of freshly brewed coffee. Let's eliminate that too.

    Smoking, like all addictions, needs to be fully understood as what it is: a very powerful addiction that is not easy to break free from. Smokers are fully aware of the dangers to their own personal health, as so are drinkers, drug users, people with multiple partners, cell phone users, fast-food junkies, coffee drinkers, and, most of all, those people who run out into the middle of traffic and do pirouettes on the busy lanes on the West Side Highway during rush hour.

    It is only antagonistic to approach a smoker on the street and improvise a statement regarding one's disapproval of their habit. For if that smoker had a crystal ball, and could see into the closets of every vocal non-smoker, they could certainly counter them with a list of "habits" that a non-smoker may engage in which warrant comment and correction.

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    • #17
      Re: Taking a smoke break right outside your job

      Well 212--I'm not going to approach smokers on the street and lecture them about their habits. And yes, if I were in an office with smokers, I'd much rather that they go outside, than bring secondhand smoke into the workplace.

      I don't really care what grown adults do to their own bodies. If someone wants to abuse their body--be it with tobacco, alcohol, too much McDonald's or whatever--it's their prerogative. You want to eat glass on the weekends? Godspeed. But nobody has the right to subject anyone else to the effects of their habit.

      What a lot of smokers don't seem to realize is that it's not about morality or annoyance; it's about documented health risks. Someone sitting next to me doing lines might annoy me, but they won't harm me directly, because they're not sharing the coke with me. Secondhand smoke on the other hand gets everywhere and has a direct impact on my lungs, eyes, and overall health.

      Of course smoking's addictive, and I do have sympathy for that, but that doesn't mean I'm going to put my own health and life at risk to support it. If someone's smoking at, say, a bus stop or a cafe, it does affect those around them. It's not fair to expect anyone to breathe in 200 different carcinogens, have their clothes and hair smell like smoke, have an asthma attack or have their lungs wrecked to accommodate someone's addiction. If someone's smoking next to me, I will ask them to stop or I will move away, and I won't feel badly about it.

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      • #18
        Re: Taking a smoke break right outside your job


        OMG! Someone lit a cigarrete on a public street! Help! Call 311!


        Great, at the very end of your post you finally stated a sensible answer to your dilemma:



        If you don't like cigarette smoke then move away from it and stop complaining.






        There, that was easy!

        Oh, and don't be telling me that cigarette smoke which disseminates into the open air, on an open street, is a danger to your health. That's absolute nonsense. Yes, it is an annoyance, but not a danger. It's not like you're trapped in a phone booth with the Marlboro Man. Pa-leazzzzze.

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        • #19
          Re: Taking a smoke break right outside your job

          I love talking to smokers...they never really have anything substantial to support their arguments; they just get rude. Once again--your rights stop with me. Just as mine stop with you. Don't endanger my health; I won't complain. The simple solution is right there.

          Sure, indoor passive smoking is worse for you. Nobody's denying it, and that's not the issue. But any time you're inhaling secondhand smoke, whether it's in the open air or not, it can hurt you. That's very well documented; it isn't nonsense. If others can smell it, they're being affected by it.

          The thing is, even on an open street, you can't always move away. Example: you're on line for something outside. The person in front of you lights up. There are twenty people behind you. Why should YOU have to move to the end of the line and lose your place, because someone wants to feed their addiction? You're in an open-air cafe and someone at the table next to you lights up. Why should someone else's addiction ruin your meal?

          Can you give me one good reason why other people's health should be directly affected to accommodate someone's voluntary addiction? A smoker doesn't die from not smoking (and no, it doesn't have withdrawal symptoms like opiods or alcohol). A nonsmoker can die from being around smoke. Why should that addiction should take precedence? Nope, it shouldn't. If a smoker is asked to put out a cigarette, they should do it and shut up about it, unless they're planning to pull out their checkbook on the spot and pay for the dry cleaning, meds and treatment of everyone around them.

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          • #20
            Re: Taking a smoke break right outside your job

            First of all, do not mistaken my assertiveness for rudeness. You should immediately retract that statement. Your statement, in fact, was rude.

            Outdoor smoke: If you don't like it, move away from it. All restaurants are non-smoking indoors, so move inside. I am sure you'll now complain about a diesel truck honking his horn next to your outdoor dinging table- move inside, same concept.

            Standing online outside, you say? And someone lights up, you say? And you have to move to the back, yes, all the way to the back of the line, you say? Why do you exaggerate so much? Either move a few paces back or go somewhere else.

            And you are severely misinformed if you think the withdrawal symptoms from alcohol are more severe those from nicotine dependence. It is much, much harder to quit smoking than anything else.

            And I certainly think that you probably feel it's ok for posters to "out" working smokers, literally posing a threat to their livelihood if, by chance, their employer sees the threads and, out of political correctness, begins a pattern of discipline against these people. This is what disturbs me most.

            I can tell by the tone of your last post that you will automatically dismiss anything reasonable that I say, so, really, why bother. It seems to be your way or the highway, as if you are not even interested in debate.

            Smoking is legal. It's like people like you are never satisfied. First, they can't smoke anywhere indoors, then, what's next? I know what's next, you'd like to see them banned from smoking all together. control-control-control.

            God Bless America.

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            • #21
              Re: Taking a smoke break right outside your job

              WTG 212

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              • #22
                Re: Taking a smoke break right outside your job

                Thanks Lex!

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                • #23
                  Re: Taking a smoke break right outside your job

                  SMOKERS SUCK! Literally and figuratively!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    putting smokers jobs and careers at risk is wrong.

                    Vidis:

                    A five word comment, like the one above, is hardly sufficient when it comes to rationalizing why one would willfully and deliberately play with people's jobs and careers by exposing to the world that they take smoke breaks at work.

                    Just so that you can have a little bit of fun, or vent your overzealous sentiments directed at law abiding citizens who happen to be unfortunate enough to have fallen prey to a serious addiction- you literally place their employment status at risk. How destructive is that?

                    I need not mention the outright exaggerations that you have furnished your claims with, as the average reader with any amount of intelligence would be able to detect in one quick read. After all, anyone who claims to have been burned by careless cigarette smokers as much as you have must have more holes in their skin than a piece of Swiss cheese.

                    And, most unfortunately, but indicative of a self-absorbed mind set, is that I have not seen one bit of effort here to understand the smoker, him or herself, and the personal challenge that they face with being held hostage to an addiction that is more powerful than you may realize. Most smokers started smoking before the legal age of consent, before they were fully formed adults, and before they were capable of truly appreciating the costs of the risk that they were undertaking. They started because perhaps it was fashionable, or perhaps they were subconsciously imitating a parent who smoked, or because they were simply being experimental, as most youth tend to be.

                    But they got hooked, almost immediately, due to the powerful chemicals inside of the tobacco, which are placed there for the express purpose of keeping the 'customer' addicted. They really do not want to be smokers, as they are enduring such stigmatisms as society progresses, but they are truly trapped in an addiction that they have not yet been able to break. Many have been successful at quitting for both short and long periods of time, but often due to a lapse of some sort, end up smoking again.

                    There is also the science of addiction, the neuropsychiatry aspect of it, that should be brought to your attention. Many people are born with a genetic trait that makes them prone to addictions of any and all types, addictions which manifest themselves in different ways; ie: gambling, drinking, etc. This is recognized by modern medical scientists as a genetic pre-disposition towards addiction, and has a lot to due with the way the brain is wired. In people who are not afflicted with such a proclivity, the neurons in their brains produce a sufficient and uninterrupted amount of serotonin and/or endorphins which simply amount to pleasuring the person with a perpetual sense of well being. Those who became substance abusers, or in many cases, become hopelessly addicted to nicotine or another drug, may indeed be suffering from such a chemical imbalance and this often is over looked and unrecognized.

                    For someone who seems to have thrived on their enjoyment of civil rights, the rights afforded in this country, and even the rights supported by the facilitation of this very message board, you seem to forget that those smokers, who "suck, literally and figuratively', as you continue to crusade against them, are entitled to the same rights as you. So.........If you have the capacity to understand, to empathize, and to be compassionate and fair minded, then I say.....

                    Leave

                    Them

                    Alone!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Taking a smoke break right outside your job

                      Originally posted by 212 View Post
                      First of all, do not mistaken my assertiveness for rudeness. You should immediately retract that statement. Your statement, in fact, was rude.

                      Outdoor smoke: If you don't like it, move away from it. All restaurants are non-smoking indoors, so move inside. I am sure you'll now complain about a diesel truck honking his horn next to your outdoor dinging table- move inside, same concept.

                      Standing online outside, you say? And someone lights up, you say? And you have to move to the back, yes, all the way to the back of the line, you say? Why do you exaggerate so much? Either move a few paces back or go somewhere else.

                      And you are severely misinformed if you think the withdrawal symptoms from alcohol are more severe those from nicotine dependence. It is much, much harder to quit smoking than anything else.

                      And I certainly think that you probably feel it's ok for posters to "out" working smokers, literally posing a threat to their livelihood if, by chance, their employer sees the threads and, out of political correctness, begins a pattern of discipline against these people. This is what disturbs me most.

                      I can tell by the tone of your last post that you will automatically dismiss anything reasonable that I say, so, really, why bother. It seems to be your way or the highway, as if you are not even interested in debate.

                      Smoking is legal. It's like people like you are never satisfied. First, they can't smoke anywhere indoors, then, what's next? I know what's next, you'd like to see them banned from smoking all together. control-control-control.

                      God Bless America.
                      Rude? Not at all. I gave you a very good argument in my first post, and you responded with something with absolutely no substance and a sarcastic remark.

                      As I've pointed out several times, smoking isn't a moral issue or an annoyance issue. It's a HEALTH issue. Period.

                      I notice that you still haven't answered my question: why should others' health and convenience be put out to accommodate your addiction? Can you give me one reason for that? Just one? Should I get lung cancer because of your decisions in life?

                      Having had several addicts in my family, I am well aware that it is a disease, and I am also aware of the challenges substance abusers face. I'm also aware that addiction can be genetically wired. None of that gives an addict the right to inflict his habit upon others. Would you say that an alcoholic should have the right to drive drunk, since after all, he's addicted and can't help it? What about a crackhead? Should she have the right to harass you on the street for money because she's addicted?

                      Addiction isn't a free pass to endanger others. Nor should it have precedence. If you want people to have compassion for your issue, you will need to be sensitive to the fact that it does affect others negatively. And yes, that means that if someone asks you not to smoke around them, the cigarette goes out or YOU move away to somewhere where you won't be harming others.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The Girl in the Plastic Bubble Suit

                        alexismckinnon:

                        I notice that you still haven't addressed my paramount concern about this thread:

                        Why should others' right to earn a decent wage be threatened by people who are hell bent on exposing them to their employers and to the public because they are engaging in a legal activity?

                        Onward, I noticed that you assert the presumption that I am a smoker. Whatever convinced you of that? Is it possible that a civil libertarian would speak up for the rights that others are legally entitled to enjoy? Think.....think.....think......good! The fact that I may or may not be a smoker has nothing to do with my passion about speaking out about other people's right to be free from harassment, blacklisting, and serious consequences to the status of their employment because they are seen "outside" of what is presumed to be their "place of employment" and are being identified by gender, in numbers, and in some cases, electronically transmitted photographs! This is truly disgusting and outrageous.

                        Regarding your boldly printed questioned that you posed to me, which states: why should others' health and convenience be put out to accommodate your addiction?

                        I award to you the following answer:

                        People's health are simply not being in put in jeopardy the way you would like us to believe, simply because someone is smoking a cigarette in an open-air arena. With all due respect, alexismckinnon, that is truly both a neurotic and false contention. If that were true, then all of the people in this city would have fallen prey to smoke related illness throughout our entire history, and that simply has not happened. Again, if one is not enduring second hand smoke within a confined and unventilated environment, their health is not being put at risk. I do not fully discredit all of your assertions, as I do, indeed, agree with and recognize the notion that second hand smoke, even in an open-air setting, can be legitimately annoying to some non-smokers. This is obvious, and I do advocate that all smokers should be considerate of others, whether they are indoors or outdoors. It's just good manners. But, please, you must try to resist the temptation to merge consideration, or the lack of it, with the notion that open-air stream smoke is a deadly carcinogen. It simply is not!

                        Convenience? You must insist on the need for personal convenience in an overcrowded city where there are an array of assaults to our five senses on a daily basis?

                        Here is the convenience that I suggest for you to indulge in, budget permitting, of course:

                        Every time you leave your apartment, make certain that you have called a car service in advance and they are idling right in front of the entrance to your building. Their idling would pollute the air even worse, but be sure to be wearing a state-of-the-art gas mask as you approach the vehicle. Then, once inside the vehicle, direct the driver to move onward towards your destination, even if it is right around the corner to pick up some puppy chow. Please do not scold the driver for having an air-scent accessory hanging from his mirror, I don't think that would impose upon your personal supply of oxygen intake. However, if you feel that it does, please politely close the partition between you and the driver. When you arrive at your destination, don't forget to tip him. If you see a discarded box of Newport Lights on the floor of his limo, snap a photograph of this danger to society at once, and post it on this web site immediately, for all to see, even people over seas. However, I caution you against using that cell phone to call anyone who may be smoking a cigarette when they receive your telephone call. After all, the second hand smoke might, possibly, you never know, find it's way through the transmitters and result in a serious case of Otitis Media, (an inner middle-ear infection). Better not chance it.

                        Then, when you arrive at your destination, ask the driver of the vehicle to zip you up in the back as you fit into your personal bubble suit that has been issued by the National Space Agency and be certain that it is environmental proof, so that even the faint scent of those inconsiderate senior citizens who poison our lungs with Channel No 5 doesn't pose the slightest risk to your health.
                        I suggest that you remain in that suit all day long, until you are back in the confines of your smoke-free apartment, posting pictures and identifying Gotham smokers.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Taking a smoke break right outside your job

                          Welcome to CCYB, 212.

                          self-right?eous –adjective - confident of one's own righteousness, esp. when smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others.
                          [Origin: 1670–80]

                          —Related forms
                          self-right?eous?ly, adverb
                          self-right?eous?ness, noun

                          —Synonyms sanctimonious, pharisaical

                          AM--Are you REALLY worried someone's cigarette smoke while you're standing at a bus stop is going to be harmful to you? I mean, c'mon. Do you ever leave your house?
                          Last edited by TinChelsea; 07-13-2008, 07:26 AM. Reason: edit

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Thanks TC

                            Thanks, T.C., for the welcome to the board. And thanks for pulling out the dictionary also, as the defined words are, indeed, relevant to this conversation.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Taking a smoke break right outside your job

                              I guess since we have a lot of new people joining the site this weekend I should first, welcome you guys and say I'm glad you're here. And also, I should let you know that this site is a little different from other discussion sites in that we don't engage in personal attacks when we disagree. Look around and you'll see plenty of disagreements, but very few personal attacks. There are some but it's really minimal.

                              You guys are free to disagree... in fact, please do! But please just do it with respect. I know I don't have to say this for the "old-timers". But 212 to call Alexis' position "neurotic" is really not something we do here. You disagree with her and that's fine. But that doesn't make her or you neurotic. I think if you'll look at most of Alexis' posts you'll see she is a great example of what I'm talking about. She has been involved in many conversations here where there is plenty of disagreement, yet she's never rude and she never attacks the person she's in disagreement with. She always treats them with respect. And that's a great example of how we like to be.

                              Anyway, I'm glad you guys are here... and thanks for letting me indulge in my bi-annual rant on manners! Just trying to keep the site friendly.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Taking a smoke break right outside your job

                                Originally posted by phtp2 View Post
                                Here we go again, but..... I'm a ex-smoker. That was my choice. I don't want to live in a society that regulates behavior! We're all adults and we can choose whether or not we want to smoke, eat fatty foods, etc.! This kind of governmental regulation can be a slippery slope. What's next? What we wear? How we speak? What we listen to or watch? If you want to live in an authoritarian state where the government controls everything, move to Singapore!
                                I agree with you completely phtp2. We're so quick to ask the government to impose new regulations everytime something happens we don't personally like. Why not appeal to government as an absolute last resort. I also agree with you I don't like them deciding what I eat. We're pretty knowledgeable about what's healthy and what's not so let us decide for ourselves. Every time we ask government to step in we lose a little bit of freedom. It's almost like "freedom" is no longer a priority. Just remember everybody - every time we ask government to solve a problem for us we ALL lose a little freedom in the process.

                                Originally posted by 212 View Post
                                The originator of the post claims to be "burned" by careless cigarette smokers on a daily basis? My goodness, you must have ended up in the nearest burn unit by now. Silly, just silly.
                                Vidis really! Exaggeration or truth? If you've seriously been burnt 3 times why are you walking so close to smokers?

                                Originally posted by 212 View Post
                                As far as there being "no escape" for outdoor cigarette smoke, that assertion flies in the face of reason as well.
                                I have to say I agree with this. Smoke is so diluted the moment it hits the outdoor air that I think you'd have to stand close enough to a smoker to get your hand burned ! 24 hours a day in order for outdoor smoke to really hurt you. I highly doubt just walking by for a couple of seconds a few times a week is going to have any effect at all on your health.

                                Originally posted by 212 View Post
                                And, if someone who had an aversion to cigarette smoke was working for a company which employed smokers, I'll bet they'd rather the smokers go outside to smoke than to light up inside. I mean, what are these people supposed to do, take a rocket to Mars every time they want to smoke?
                                That's a great point 212. I had a buddy who used to smoke. He quit several years ago but he was still smoking when the indoor ban first went into effect. So one day he was sitting outside at South St Seaport eating lunch and smoking. It was a beautiful summer day and a lot of people had brought their lunches outside and were eating around him. One person he says asked him if he would mind not smoking because they were still eating. He said he wouldn't mind at all, but unfortunately because of the new indoor ban - outdoors was the only place left! If he could have gone inside like before he would have been happy to leave the people outdoors in a smoke-free environment.

                                Originally posted by 212 View Post
                                It is only antagonistic to approach a smoker on the street and improvise a statement regarding one's disapproval of their habit. For if that smoker had a crystal ball, and could see into the closets of every vocal non-smoker, they could certainly counter them with a list of "habits" that a non-smoker may engage in which warrant comment and correction.
                                Great point! I fully agree.

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