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Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

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  • #16
    Re: Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

    CD, Impeachment. It's not gonna happen.

    There's one thing you guys should find troubling in that poll though. And that is that Obama is leading Clinton nationally. Why do I say you should find that troubling? Because... think of it like this: If Clinton is the nominee, there is a possibility that the lesser-known Obama may see that it is in his interest to join her on the ticket - as he would surely be invited. It would be extremely difficult for any Republican to beat a Democratic ticket that would get more than usual the number of black and female votes.

    However, if Obama wins, it is highly unlikely that the far more senior Hillary would ever stoop to joining his ticket as running mate. And that would surely lessen the uphill battle of the Republican team.

    I think you guys should pray that Hillary wins the nomination and asks Barak to join her.

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    • #17
      Re: Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

      Originally posted by seedyonenyc View Post
      I found the results astonishing, even to me.
      OK...I'll bite. Why are the results surprising to you? They break down over party lines. We are a highly-polarized nation and each side has many members seeing the other side as part of a nefarious plot (vast right-wing conspiracy vs vast left-wing conspiracy).

      I could understand if you find the poll disheartening; but no, I don't get why you find it surprising.

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      • #18
        Re: Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

        Originally posted by tarmill View Post
        Impeachment.
        Here's a formula for dubious success...

        1. Impeach Bush.
        2. Bush found guilty; tossed out of office.
        3. Cheney sworn in as president.

        Congress impeaching both Bush and Cheney? I don't see that. Regardless of what I think of the Democratic leadership, I just don't see them willing to go that far to destablize the government just for partisan gain.

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        • #19
          Re: Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

          Originally posted by tarmill View Post
          CD, Impeachment. It's not gonna happen.
          I'm moving this to a new topic called "The will of the People".

          As for the 2008 maneuvers, I'll leave that to someone who cares. At this juncture, I don't. I truly believe this early chatter is a conspiracy between the 2 major parties to deny the will of the people who want the bums thrown out. It would mean no pork being dished out while the hearings take place & the pork pays for the beans that create all the gas that fills the air at election time. This just verifies the fact that these guys have no interest in the good of the country or the desire of the American public to oust their cronies.

          A pox on both their houses.

          CD
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          • #20
            Re: Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

            Originally posted by AEG View Post
            OK...I'll bite. Why are the results surprising to you? They break down over party lines. We are a highly-polarized nation and each side has many members seeing the other side as part of a nefarious plot (vast right-wing conspiracy vs vast left-wing conspiracy).

            I could understand if you find the poll disheartening; but no, I don't get why you find it surprising.
            From the American Research poll:

            Question:
            Do you favor or oppose the US House of Representatives beginning impeachment proceedings against President George W. Bush?
            7/5/07 Favor Oppose Undecided
            All Adults 45% 46% 9%
            Voters 46% 44% 10%
            Democrats (38%) 69% 22% 9%
            Republicans (29%) 13% 86% 1%
            Independents (33%) 50% 30% 20%
            3/15/06 42% 49% 9%


            Here's what I find interesting:
            1) The increase in Independents is at the expense of the declared Republicans. No surprise there.

            2) The largest group of overall voters is 46% for impeachment with the 44% against. That's surprising.

            3) That's an increase of 4% since March while there is at least 1 war on (if you buy into Iraq being where THE "War on Terror" is being waged), or 2 wars (if like me, you see Iraq & global terror as 2 different fronts). At that rate by Oct we could see over 50% of the general populace for impeachment. I find nothing disheartening about that at all.

            4) The 'undecided' numbers is only 10% on this issue. I would have thought that this number would be greater.

            The order of 'declared' affiliations is 38% D, 33% I & 29% R.
            Your 'polarization' observation weakens as the center find a voice.

            I am confused by a separate accounting for "all adults" & "voters".

            I will restate that I find this trending much more important than Iowa or New Hampshire 18 months out.

            The pundits have been putting more & more emphasis on the middle for a few election cycles now & if they are correct, & I hope they are, the 'polarization' has peaked & the common sense of middle will be heard.

            For fun, because it theoretically removes the 'polarization' you speak of, let's look at just the Independent response: 50%, 30% & 20%. That sure seems like a 'measured' proportion to me.

            It would be wonderful if, by mid-'08, ALL the candidates had to give an accounting as to what they had done in response to the will of the people. Now that WOULD be an interesting development.

            Imagine Kucinich as the "people's champion".

            Just my opinion.

            CD
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            • #21
              Re: Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

              Originally posted by seedyonenyc View Post
              I am confused by a separate accounting for "all adults" & "voters".
              My guess is that "All Adults" is all adults polled while "voters" are those people who voted in the last election or who say they will vote in the next election or something along this line of thought.

              I would imagine the probability of Kucinich would finding his way to the middle to be roughly equal to Pat Buchanan doing same.

              One reason I don't change my party affiliation to Independent: So I can vote in the primary for a major party. For now, I still consider voting "Independent" as a "protest vote."
              Last edited by AEG; 07-11-2007, 05:36 PM. Reason: Additional stuff

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              • #22
                Re: Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

                Originally posted by AEG View Post
                ...One reason I don't change my party affiliation to Independent: So I can vote in the primary for a major party. For now, I still consider voting "Independent" as a "protest vote."
                My point exactly.

                In my lifetime, independent was like writing in Mickey Mouse, or as I have done "None of the above". I'm getting giddy when I watch how the Republicans are in an unusual state of disarray & the Democrats, usually the Three Stooges Party have finally started marching in the same direction. Too bad it's the wrong way.

                Both seem to me to be so out of touch & rudderless that nothing good can come of a 'victory' for either. The last election was lost by the Republicans & the Democrats happened to be the only ones standing in the room when the lights came on.

                It would be so cool if even a marginal yet reasonable, well funded nationally identifiable candidate were to emerge. Boy would that rattle the status quo.

                Oh, wait a minute! There's Bloomberg now. Where's he been?

                In DC trying to secure funds, BIG funds for public transportation & reconvening the Council of Mayors to demand that a national database of firearm sales be implemented to trace illegal gun sales between states. What a silly man. What will he think of next?

                CD
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                • #23
                  Re: Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

                  Originally posted by seedyonenyc View Post
                  It would be so cool if even a marginal yet reasonable, well funded nationally identifiable candidate were to emerge. Boy would that rattle the status quo.

                  Oh, wait a minute! There's Bloomberg now. Where's he been?
                  And he's self-funded. To many that's a drawback. To me, he's not at the mercy of corporate America or sucking on the teat of the unions. You may be able to tell I like the self-funding thing.

                  I would vote for Bloomberg way before anyone the Republicans or Democrats are thinking of serving up.
                  Last edited by AEG; 07-11-2007, 10:15 PM. Reason: typo

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                  • #24
                    Polls & Factoids

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                    • #25
                      Re: Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

                      Now CD, I know you're not promoting the killing of people who aren't so well-informed politically! I know you're not. You just can't be.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

                        Originally posted by tarmill View Post
                        Now CD, I know you're not promoting the killing of people who aren't so well-informed politically! I know you're not. You just can't be.
                        If one were to take this comic literally, ( & I doubt many, if any would), it would read "wish" not "promote" & the wish is that they kill themselves, not be killed by others.

                        While we're in a whimsical literal mode, I might suggest that there is a deeper meaning being that those who 'believe' in the connection could also be convinced to kill themselves. You know, drink the 'kool-ade' as it were.

                        I wish you well & hope that they are able to find Bush's head while performing his colonoscopy today.

                        CD
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                        • #27
                          Re: Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

                          I find the distinction between wanting to kill somebody and wishing they'd kill themselves to be a little flimsy. The net effect is the expression of hate. And the expression that you wish they were dead. There are certainly other and better and kinder ways, and still humorous ways, to point out that a quarter of the population is stupid and you wish something could be done about it, without wishing them dead. Like how about this: "I now know what it feels like to think maybe all that spending on schools isn't helping much!"

                          I know this is a comic strip and probably nothing that serious was meant by it. I only bring it up because if, say a conservative talk show host, had said the same thing I can only imagine the uproar on the left about how hateful conservatives are.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

                            Originally posted by tarmill View Post
                            I only bring it up because if, say a conservative talk show host, had said the same thing I can only imagine the uproar on the left about how hateful conservatives are.
                            Although I understand what you mean, I think the larger picture is that minorities are not the majority. And if they say something hateful or debasing, it's not supposed to be taken all that seriously. After all, they are only minorities without power. Granted this is an elitist viewpoint, but I think that is what is supposed to be read between the lines; it's just that nobody says this.

                            And more important than the lack of power of minorities is that they have not been in a position to abuse their power so far as to have government-sanctioned hate as conservatives previously have, e.g., genocide of the native american peoples, slavery of the blacks, the jim crow laws, and so forth. I don't think anyone really expects minorities to be treated as equals just yet -- it's a show we put on to help us progress to get us to one day when we really will see each other on some sort of equal terms. For now, we are supposed to give minorities a free pass on some things until we get to that day.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

                              Yes, you make good points AEG about the state of minority/majority relations in this country. But I'm not sure I see how that ties to this comic strip. I didn't see it as something that had anything to do with minorities. Or am I just missing your point all together?

                              But as to your point, yes we certainly do have different standards for minorities than we have for the majority. Personally, I feel like it's a reverse racism that says "oh well, they're - you know... [insert race or ethinicity or religion here], so it's okay for them to act like that, or talk like that."

                              It's really a kind of reverse racism when we don't hold everyone to the same high standards. When we let some get away meeting a lower standard, we're certainly doing them no good. And it's kind of like saying "we don't think you're capable of acting like the majority." That in my opinion is racist.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Presidential Politics - Choosing our Choices

                                It sounds like this has gone way off base by confusing some terms.
                                Sure Blacks are a minority as are Latinos, but as a group called "people of color" they comprise a majority. Throw in the Arab & Asian populations & well...

                                But this is all in terms of race & when you speak in terms based on race, no matter how you slice it, it's RACISM.

                                If I'm not mistaken there are slightly more women in this country than men, yet there is a strong sentiment that a woman could never be elected President. That is a purely sexist notion until after the election when a "political majority" will be defined.

                                All these terms are based on bigotry, biases & prejudice that pit one group against another.

                                AEG & Tarmill, my advice it to be more precise when using the word minority, because there is a big difference when speaking in political terms or racial terms.

                                I think it is sad that as I have witnessed a greater tolerance in race relations, I have seen an increase of intolerance in human relations.

                                Mores the pity.

                                CD

                                PS Tarmill;
                                Obviously you don't own a car as you haven't touched on the positive side presented in the strip.

                                CD
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