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  • #16
    Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

    Originally posted by vbad
    Yikes! Calm down CC! I didn't judge you. Where did I judge you? Anyway, it's fine for you not to like it. But before you go condemning it as unfactual - you should at least be able to provide some facts on which it was substantially unfactual - shouldn't you? If you can't do that, then how do you know it was unfactual? Or is it that you just don't like it because it goes against what you WANT to believe?
    Vbad....

    I wonder who put such nonsense into your head that "liberals" do not want the truth. What makes you believe that "we" are not interested in the truth, the whole truth and nothing but? And why do you assume we are willing to believe "lies" to support what we "want to believe"? Is this some mantra you were raised with? Like Cher said in Moonstruck, "Snap out of it, kid."

    To be frank, that 50% of the country who didn't vote for Bush, view "your" side as the ones who refuse to see the truth and will buy into any Conservative falsehood and twisted arguement to support what YOU want to believe. Funny, huh? Go figure.

    And CC...you have nothing to apologize for, you did not go off the deep end.
    Vbad has been cautioned to remain civil and polite and obviously is still struggling with that concept.

    14th/9th- Heck of job, Brownie! Now, we wait for Vbad to trounce.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

      Sorry, I'm still not seeing what substantive facts they "created". all the above says "words were put into real people's mouths", but it doesn't say what words, nor does it say what they really said.

      LTR the reason I say "liberals" don't want the truth if it goes against what they're predisposed to believe is precisely because the minute this "docu-drama" came out which dared to say anything negative towards certain people in the Clinton administration, including Clinton himself, the left totally jumped on it. They said it was written and controlled by Republicans (no substantiation to that), they said Disney is in bed with the white house - a ludicrous claim with no evidence whatsoever. And they basically just went nuts coming up with crazy conspiracy theories.

      Do you guys not know that the Clinton administration did have several opportunities to get bin Laden and blew all of them? Don't you realize that actually happened?

      Look, I'm not saying the Bush administraiton was any better before 9/11. But to be fair they had been in office for only 8 months. The Clintons had 8 years. But the Bushies had many of the same legal and political problems the Clintonites had and for similar reasons didn't do much better before 9/11.

      Can't you guys at least admit to that?

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

        oh and by the way - CC - yes. still friends... always friends! we're cyb neighbors!

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

          "Do you guys not know that the Clinton administration did have several opportunities to get bin Laden and blew all of them? Don't you realize that actually happened?"

          No. It didn't happen. You can't prove it. It's a lie.

          "Conservatives" have had it out for Clinton from the day he was elected.

          "it was written and controlled by Republicans (no substantiation to that)"

          The writer of the movie is an unabashed conservative named Cyrus Nowrasteh. Last year, Nowrasteh spoke on a panel titled, “Rebels With a Cause: How Conservatives Can Lead Hollywood’s Next Paradigm Shift.” He has described Michael Moore as “an out of control socialist weasel,” and conducted interviews with right-wing websites like FrontPageMag.

          Look, all I'm saying the greatest attack on American soil happened on Bush's watch. They had been in office for only 8 months? Aren't you expected to be doing your job by the 8 month mark? Don't you think they should have been preparing for the job during the campaign? They certainly had many other things in place. They were obsessed with "Clinton left a messy office". Do you remember what the first eight months of Bush's tenure were like? The Clintons had 8 years. They were focus on terror. The Bushies pushed it aside and ignored it. Bremer had every right to say, as he did in February 2001, with much conviction: "The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh, my God, shouldn't we be organized to deal with this?'" During the presidential transition, President-elect Bush and Vice President-elect Dick Cheney received a briefing from the CIA that including the topic of al-Qaida. James Pavitt, the deputy director for operations at the CIA, told the commission that at this briefing he informed the three of you that bin Laden was one of the gravest threats to the country. Why, then, did the president not feel a sense of urgency, as he has told Bob Woodward he did not? Also, do you think it was appropriate for the administration to engage in an eight-month-long policy review -- at the deputies level, rather than at the principals level -- on such a pressing threat, when they knew that the deputies cannot implement policy?

          Bush racked up a 42-percent vacation rate before September 11, 2001. The number comes from a Washington Post article that concludes Bush spent "a whopping 54 days at his Crawford ranch, 38 days at the presidential retreat at Camp David and four more at his parents' place in Kennebunkport, Maine.

          That's in just eight months.

          This is all a part of public record.

          Here is a list of George W. Bush's administration's work during the first six months of his term in office:

          Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.

          Cut federal spending on libraries by $39 million.

          Cut $35 million in funding for doctors to get advanced paediatric training.

          Cut by 50% funding for research into renewable energy sources.

          Revoked rules that reduced the acceptable levels of arsenic drinking water.

          Blocked rules that would require federal agencies to offer bilingual assistance to non-English speaking persons. This, from a candidate who would readily fire-up his Spanish-speaking skills in front of would-be Hispanic voters.

          Proposed to eliminate new marine protections for the Channel Islands and the coral reefs of northwest Hawaii. [San Francisco Chronicle, April 6, 2001]

          Cut funding by 28% for research into cleaner, more efficient cars and trucks.
          Suspended rules that would have strengthened the government's ability to deny contracts to companies that violated workplace safety, environmental and other federal laws.

          Okayed Interior Department appointee Gale Norton to send out letters to state officials soliciting suggestions for opening up national monuments for oil and gas drilling, coal mining, and foresting.

          Appointed John Negroponte—an un-indicted high-level Iran Contra figure during his tenure as U.S. Ambassador to Honduras—to the post of United Nations ambassador.

          Abandoned a campaign pledge to invest $100 million for rain forest conservation.
          Reduced by 86% the Community Access Program for public hospitals, clinics and providers of care for people without insurance.

          Rescinded a proposal to increase public access to information about the potential consequences resulting from chemical plant accidents.

          Suspended rules that would require hardrock miners to clean up sites on Western public lands.

          Cut $60 million from a Boy's and Girl's Clubs of America program for public housing.

          Proposed to eliminate a federal program designed to help communities (and successfully used in Seattle) prepare for natural disasters.

          Pulled out of the 1997 Kyoto Treaty global warming agreement.

          Cut $200 million of work force training for dislocated workers.

          Eliminated funding for the Wetlands Reserve Program, which encourages farmers to maintain wetlands habitat on their property.

          Cut program to provide childcare to low-income families as they move from welfare to work.

          Cut a program that provided prescription contraceptive coverage to federal employees (though it still pays for Viagra).

          Cut $700 million in capital funds for repairs in public housing.

          Appointed Otto Reich—an un-indicted high-level Iran Contra figure—to Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs.

          Cut Environmental Protection Agency budget by $500 million.

          Proposed to curtail the ability of groups to sue in order to get an animal placed on the Endangered Species List.

          Rescinded rule that mandated increased energy-saving efficiency regulations for central air conditioners and heat pumps.

          Repealed workplace ergonomic rules designed to improve worker health and safety.

          Abandoned campaign pledge to regulate carbon dioxide (CO2), the waste gas that contributes to global warming.

          Banned federal aid to international family planning programs that offer abortion counseling with other independent funds.

          Closed White House Office for Women's Health Initiatives and Outreach.

          Nominated David Lauriski—ex-mining company executive—to post of Assistant Secretary of Labour for Mine Safety and Health.

          Okayed Interior Secretary Gale Norton to go forth with a controversial plan to auction oil and gas development tracts off the eastern coast of Florida.

          Announced intention to open up Montana's Lewis and Clark National Forest to oil and drilling.

          Proposes to re-draw boundaries of nation's monuments, which would technically allow oil and gas drilling "outside" of national monuments.

          Gutted White House AIDS Office.

          Renegotiating free trade agreement with Jordan to eliminate safeguards for the environment and workers' rights.

          Will no longer seek guidance from The American Bar Association in recommendations for the federal judiciary appointments.

          Appointed recycling foe Lynn Scarlett as Undersecretary of the Interior.

          Took steps to abolish the White House Council on Environmental Quality.

          Cut the Community Oriented Policing Services program.

          Allowed Interior Secretary Gale Norton to shelve citizen-led grizzly bear re-introduction plan scheduled for Idaho and Montana wilderness.

          Continues to hold up federal funding for stem cell research projects.

          Makes sure convicted misdemeanor drug users cannot get financial aid for college, though convicted murderers can.

          Refused to fund continued cleanup of uranium-slag heap in Utah.

          Refused to fund continued litigation of the government's tobacco company lawsuit.

          Proposed a $2 trillion tax cut, of which 43% will go to the wealthiest 1% of Americans.

          Signed a bill making it harder for poor and middle-class Americans to file for bankruptcy, even in the case of daunting medical bills.

          Appointed a Vice President quoted as saying "If you want to do something about carbon dioxide emissions, then you ought to build nuclear power plants." (Vice President Dick Cheney on "Meet the Press.")

          Appointed Diana "There is no gender gap in pay" Roth to the Council of Economic Advisers. (Boston Globe, March 28, 2001)

          Appointed Kay Cole James—an opponent of affirmative action—to direct the Office of Personnel Management.

          Cut $15.7 million earmarked for states to investigate cases of child abuse and neglect.

          Helped kill a law designed to make it tougher for teenagers to get credit cards.
          Proposed elimination of the "Reading is Fundamental" program that gives free books to poor children.

          Is pushing for development of small nuclear weapons to attack deeply buried targets-weapons, which would violate the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty.

          Proposes to nominate Jeffrey Sutton—attorney responsible for the recent case weakening the Americans with Disabilities Act—to federal appeals court judgeship.
          Proposes to reverse regulation protecting 60 million acres of national forest from logging and road building.

          Eliminated funding for the "We the People" education program which taught schoolchildren about the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and citizenship.
          Appointed John Bolton—who opposes non-proliferation treaties and the U.N.—to Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security.

          Nominated Linda Fisher—an executive with Monsanto—for the number two job at the Environmental Protection Agency.

          Nominated Michael McConnell—leading critic of the separation of church and state—to a federal judgeship.

          Nominated Terrence Boyle—ardent opponent of civil rights—to a federal judgeship.

          Canceled 2004 deadline for automakers to develop prototype high mileage cars.

          Nominated Harvey Pitts—lawyer for teen sex video distributor—to head SEC.

          Nominated John Walters—strong opponent of prison drug treatment programs—for Drug Czar. (Washington Post, May 16, 2001)

          Nominated J. Steven Giles—an oil and coal lobbyist—for Deputy Secretary of the Interior.

          Nominated Bennett Raley—who advocates repealing the Endangered Species Act—for Assistant Secretary for Water and Science.

          Is seeking the dismissal of class-action lawsuit filed in the U.S. against Japan by Asian women forced to work as sex slaves during WWII.

          Earmarked $4 million in new federal grant money for HIV and drug abuse prevention programs to go only to religious groups and not secular equivalents.

          Reduced by 40% the Low Income Home Assistance Program for low-income individuals who need assistance paying energy bills.

          Nominated Ted Olson—involved with the Scaife-funded "Arkansas Project" to bring down Bill Clinton—for Solicitor General.

          Proposes to ease permit process—including environmental considerations—for refinery, nuclear and hydroelectric dam construction. (Washington Post, May 18,2001)

          Proposes to give government the authority to take private property for power lines through eminent domain.

          Proposes that $1.2 billion in funding for alternative renewable energy come from selling oil and gas lease tracts in the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve.

          Plans on serving genetically engineered foods at all official government functions.
          Forced out Forest Service chief Mike Dombeck and appointed a timber industry lobbyist


          Now, they're desperately back tracking and blaming anyone they can find in order not to take responsibility, but use the attack for every other purpose they can come up with.

          Can't you at least admit to that?

          If you "still not seeing what substantive facts they created", then you're just not choosing to read.

          "one of the biggest distortions was that the CIA and Northern Alliance fighters had a clear shot at bin Laden in early 1998"

          does that count? isn't that "substantive" enough?

          "The film clearly fingers Albright as having warned the Pakistanis, and in fact she seems downright proud of blowing the operation. But it was (Republican) Defense Secretary William Cohen who asked vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Henry Hugh Shelton to warn Pakistan."

          An outright fabrication.

          "Bush gave the go-ahead for American fighter jets to shoot down hijacked airliners. In fact, though Cheney bragged he and Bush made that decision, the NORAD tapes acquired by the makers of "United 93" and published in Vanity Fair showed that never happened. Military officials waited in vain for such an order, but it never came."

          "substantive"?

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

            "The BBC broadcast a controversial docu-drama, The Path to 9/11, this week without realising that it had been made by a member of the US religious right.
            The three-hour programme, shown over two nights on BBC2 to commemorate the fifth anniversary of the attack on the twin towers, was purchased from ABC, a subsidiary of Disney. At the last minute the US television company was forced to re-edit sequences after claims of distortion from former president Bill Clinton and members of his administration.

            A BBC spokesman said the organisation did not vet film-makers on their political or religious beliefs.

            The film's director, David Cunningham, is active in Youth With a Mission (Ywam), a fundamentalist evangelical organisation founded by his father, Loren Cunningham. According to its publications, the group believes in demonic possession, spiritual healing and conservative sexual morality.

            Last month David Cunningham addressed a conference in England organised by the group at its UK headquarters in Harpenden, Hertfordshire, on the making of the film. His talk was entitled Christ-like Witness in the Film Industry.

            According to one of the group's publications,"David and his wife Judy are the nucleus of an association of more than 40 Ywam alumni who are called to the communications industry in the Los Angeles area ... to create an independent film company whereby he could both influence the Hollywood film industry and produce major motion pictures that would carry a Biblical, values-based message".

            www.guardian.co.uk/

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

              Ok so you think NOTHING Clinton did in 8 years held over for the first 8 months of the Bush administration? You think none of the policies that were put in place under Clinton like the "Wall" that was unnecessarily strengthened by Jamie Gorelick (on her own initiative - something I think they left out of the movie by the way) had any effect on the Bush team in the first 8 months? You think the direction of the entire U.S. government can be turned around in just 8 months?

              I think you have a very tenuous understanding of everything that went into 9/11. It wasn't just what happened under Clinton either. It started with Carter, went through Reagan and the first Bush. And it wasn't just what presidents did, it was what congresses did as well. Congress is as much to blame as anyone.

              I find that YOUR trying to put 100% of the blame on Bush entirely without putting any blame on Clinton is what in fact is biased. I don't find a movie that places blame squarely on both presidents - with substantiation in fact - to be nearly as biased as you are being.

              Clearly as anyone who is objective can see - both administrations did things that can be blamed. Why is it I'm the only one here who says there's plenty of blame to go around in BOTH administrations? All I hear from you guys is this movie was incredibly biased because it dared to place some of the blame on Clinton! Obviously, as president for the 8 years leading up to 9/11 there has to be much blame put on the Clinton administration. If nothing else, just the fact they didn't do anything much after the embassy bombings and the Cole bombing. bin Laden even said that that lack of a resolute response form the U.S. convinced him the U.S. was weak and he could attack us without recrimination. I don't think any of us need a movie to tell us that's true.

              A weak, or no response at all, invites attacks. Nothing you say about this movie can get around the fact that the Clinton resonse to terrorist attacks was perceived as so weak by the terrorists that it invited them, it encouraged them to do more.

              Get real people. Obviously Clinton has to share much of the blame with Bush.

              And by the way, I don't read long unattributed copy & pastes. It's quite boring anyway. But you may have noticed everyone here is really good about attributing their quotes. But why don't you just sum up your thoughts into a few concise paragraphs. You must have copy and pasted 5-10 single spaced pages by now! You should let us know where you're copying from as well.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

                Whew, thank you 14/9th.

                You spewed the words right outta my brain.

                Did you mention when Clinton got into office he turned a large deficit into a large surplus. When Bush got into the White House, the first thing he did, after doubling his salary, was plunder that surplus. He returned it to the "taxpayers". Note: The "rebate" was allocated according to how much you paid in. Average taxpayers received about 200-300.00 Wealthier taxpayers received more. Poverty stricken Americans, so poor they don't have enough income to pay into the tax system, received nothing.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

                  by the way: you don't read.

                  that's fine.

                  every post was attributed.

                  but- you don't read so, you wouldn't know that.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

                    Geesh, you guys are so all over the place. First 14and9 lists a thousand things Bush did in the first 8 months, then claims he was on vacation too much to get anything done! Like they don't have phones and computers in Texas!

                    Then LTR you perfectly illustrate how Bush is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. 14and9 just listed about a hundred places Bush cut spending, then you cliam the first thing he did was plunder the surplus.

                    So I'm just having trouble putting two and two together. Looks like to me he spent the first 8 months (i.e. making it the first thing he did) increasing the surplus.

                    But clearly, increasing the surplus is condemned as budget cuts by 14and9! But not making budget cuts, in fact, increasing spending is condemned as plundering the surplus by LTR!!!

                    So which way do you guys want it?

                    14and9 I also have to ask you if you feel Christians should be allowed to make movies. Do you think a movie made by a Christian is necessarily inaccurate and biased? Do you feel Christians should be allowed to make movies that are shown on a major network? I just find it very disturbing actually that you posted what you did. You seem to be insinuating that there's something really bad about this guy having a strong religious faith. Do you think religious people are somehow incapable of making a factual docudrama?

                    I wonder if you realize that many documentaries are made by atheists and I wonder if you've ever pointed out that a docudrama made by an atheist was was made by an atheist and made the point that it should therefore be ignored or discounted for the obvious bias it must contain?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

                      Maybe this discussion should be under "controversial" instead of "movies"? I'm starting to feel the heat.....

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

                        President Bill Clinton declared, "If, as it now appears, this was an act of terrorism, it was a despicable and cowardly act. We will find out who was responsible and hold them accountable".

                        Under U.S. law, an attack against a military target does not meet the legal definition of terrorism.

                        On January 19, 2001, The Navy completed and released its Judge Advocate General Manual (JAGMAN) investigation of the incident, concluding that Cole's commanding officer "acted reasonably in adjusting his force protection posture based on his assessment of the situation that presented itself" when Cole arrived in Aden to refuel. The JAGMAN also concluded that "the commanding officer of Cole did not have the specific intelligence, focused training, appropriate equipment or on-scene security support to effectively prevent or deter such a determined, preplanned assault on his ship" and recommended significant changes in Navy procedures.

                        On November 3, 2002, the CIA fired a AGM-114 Hellfire missile from a Predator UAV at a vehicle carrying Abu Ali al-Harithi, a suspected planner of the bombing plot. Also in the vehicle was Ahmed Hijazi, a U.S. citizen. Both were killed. This operation was carried out on Yemeni soil, possibly with the cooperation of the Yemeni government.

                        On September 29, 2004, a Yemeni judge sentenced Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri and Jamal al-Badawi to death for their roles in the bombing. Al-Nashiri, believed to be the operation's mastermind, is currently being held by the U.S. at an undisclosed location. Al-Badawi, in Yemeni custody, denounced the verdict as "an American one." Four others were sentenced to prison terms of five to 10 years for their involvement, including one Yemeni who had videotaped the attack.

                        http://experts.about.com/e/u/us/USS_Cole_bombing.htm

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

                          "if you feel Christians should be allowed to make movies"

                          not true.

                          the charge was: there was no connection to republicans. just not true.

                          and what does atheism and documentaries have to do with this? this is just deflection and "changing the subject", which is: falsifying the events of 9/11 for political gain.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

                            So I'm just having trouble putting two and two together.
                            Tar...Good News! Here's something else we agree on!

                            Do you think religious people are somehow incapable of making a factual docudrama? I wonder if you realize that many documentaries are made by atheists
                            First off, there's no such thing as a factual/docuDRAMA. That's an oxymoron. The word DRAMA indicates just that. It is a dramatization of an historial event. Artistic license applies.

                            A documentary is not a drama. It's a documentation of what happened. Considering this all happened within the past decade or so and all the major players are alive, why couldn't they do a documentary? Speak directly to those people and record what they have to say?

                            Maybe the film makers preferred to have actors and "artistic license" instead of the REAL words of the REAL players? Maybe that would have been too much truth?

                            I don't think anyone really cares if a Christian or an atheist is involved as long as the film is accurate and not a "depiction". You said it wasn't true a Republican was involved in the film and asked for proof. 14th/9th gave you the proof. Then you accuse him of being "anti-Christian."

                            We ALL want the truth...whatever "label" you care to assign us.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

                              Originally posted by 14and9
                              and what does atheism and documentaries have to do with this?
                              Okay, so what does Christianity have to do with this? What does the fact that someone who worked on this was a Christian have to do with it? Why did you even bring that up?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: The Disney Mickey Mouse Monstrosity

                                here's why:

                                ""The Path to 9/11" is produced and promoted by a well-honed propaganda operation consisting of a network of little-known right-wingers working from within Hollywood to counter its supposedly liberal bias. This is the network within the ABC network. Its godfather is far right activist David Horowitz, who has worked for more than a decade to establish a right-wing presence in Hollywood and to discredit mainstream film and TV production. On this project, he is working with a secretive evangelical religious right group founded by The Path to 9/11's director David Cunningham that proclaims its goal to "transform Hollywood" in line with its messianic vision.

                                Before The Path to 9/11 entered the production stage, Disney/ABC contracted David Cunningham as the film's director. Cunningham is no ordinary Hollywood journeyman. He is in fact the son of Loren Cunningham, founder of the right-wing evangelical group Youth With A Mission (YWAM). The young Cunningham helped found an auxiliary of his father's group called The Film Institute (TFI), which, according to its mission statement, is "dedicated to a Godly transformation and revolution TO and THROUGH the Film and Televisionindustry." As part of TFI's long-term strategy, Cunningham helped place interns from Youth With A Mission's in film industry jobs "so that they can begin to impact and transform Hollywood from the inside out," according to a YWAM report.

                                Last June, Cunningham's TFI announced it was producing its first film, mysteriously titled "Untitled History Project." "TFI's first project is a doozy," a newsletter to YWAM members read. "Simply being referred to as: The Untitled History Project, it is already being called the television event of the decade and not one second has been put to film yet. Talk about great expectations!" (A web edition of the newsletter was mysteriously deleted yesterday but has been cached on Google: http://tinyurl.com/lvkxj ).

                                The following month, on July 28, the New York Post reported that ABC was filming a mini-series "under a shroud of secrecy" about the 9/11 attacks. "At the moment, ABC officials are calling the miniseries 'Untitled Commission Report' and producers refer to it as the 'Untitled History Project,'" the Post noted.

                                Early on, Cunningham had recruited a young Iranian-American screenwriter named Cyrus Nowrasteh to write the script of his secretive "Untitled" film. Not only is Nowrasteh an outspoken conservative, he is also a fervent member of the emerging network of right-wing people burrowing into the film industry with ulterior sectarian political and religious agendas, like Cunningham.

                                Nowrasteh's conservatism was on display when he appeared as a featured speaker at the Liberty Film Festival (LFF), an annual event founded in 2004 to premier and promote conservative-themed films supposedly too "politically incorrect" to gain acceptance at mainstream film festivals. This June, while The Path to 9/11 was being filmed, LFF founders Govindini Murty and Jason Apuzzo -- both friends of Nowrasteh -- announced they were "partnering" with right-wing activist David Horowitz. Indeed, the 2006 LFF is listed as "A Program of the David Horowitz Freedom Center."

                                http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-bl...t_b_29015.html

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