2 New Shootings / crime in Chelsea

[bobw22]

The NY Times had a small article today about a guy being robbed and shot in the foot yesterday morning at the corner of 23rd/9th. Has anyone heard any more about the incident?

[gatopreto]

I was meaning to post about this. I haven't seen anything about it in the media. I called the channel 2 tip line at the time it happened, but they didn't seem very interested.

What did the article say? It's not online.

I didn't see the shooting, but I heard the shot, and saw the aftermath. It took a good 5 minutes for the cops to get there, by which time the guys I'm guessing now were the shooters had jumped in their car & taken off down 9th Avenue. It happened around 5am, and the cops were there for hours, photographing the bullets, etc. There were two bullets in the crosswalk just west of 9th Avenue, right by the Chelsea Square diner.

I have to tell you, I am getting really fed up with the scene outside Chelsea Square in the early morning hours. All the clubbers go there around 4/5 am, hang out in the street shouting to each other, blasting music from their cars - it's just ridiculous. And this is the third gunshot I've heard outside of it this year.

I used to call the 10th Precinct when cars were blasting music, but the last few times I've called, they really haven't cared at all.

Last weekend there was a big brawl on the northwest corner of 23rd & 9th. I think it was a bunch of people who had come out of Kanvas.

[bobw22]

Here is the Times article-

Man Is Shot in Chelsea

By THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: November 19, 2006
A man was shot in the left foot yesterday in the Chelsea neighborhood of Manhattan after being robbed by two men, the police said. The victim, whose name was not released, said he had just left a restaurant with another man at West 23rd Street and Ninth Avenue about 6 a.m. when two men snatched his necklace and shot him in the foot, the police said. The victim then ran into the Chelsea Square Restaurant, trailing blood and yelling for workers to call 911, a witness said. He was taken to St. Vincent?s Hospital Manhattan. A shell casing was found, and no arrests have been made, the police said.

[gatopreto]

Thanks bob.

[gatopreto]

From The Villager's Police Blotter:

Diner shooting
A man who had just finished breakfast with a friend at Chelsea Square Restaurant at W. 23rd St. and Ninth Ave. at 5 a.m. Sat. Nov. 18 was shot in the foot during a chain-snatching incident, police said.

Two strangers emerged from a car parked across Ninth Ave., stopped the pair as they left the restaurant and snatched a chain from the victim, who resisted. One of the thieves pulled a gun and fired a shot that hit the victim in the foot. The robbers fled and the victim made his way back into the restaurant, where employees bound his bleeding foot. The victim was taken to St. Vincent’s Hospital, where he was described as being in stable condition.

====================================

Holy Crap! Just as I was posting this I heard several shots - though they sounded like they could have been from a BB gun.

[JimR]

Don't thinhk so Gato. I also heard shots about 4:50 am, on 11/25. Four in rapid succession, then a pause, then another shot. And that was no BB gun!. I'm in the London Terrace and overlook the garden we have so can't see the streets.

[marcusny]

I live on 23rd, across from London Terrace, and there was definitely a shooting last night. I would say even more than five shots. I was awake and heard the whole thing. I went to my window, which faces 23rd St. and looked toward the intersection. A small car quickly turned down 9th ave and another shot rang out.

Something needs to be done. This all has to do with people from the clubs at the Chelsea Square Restaurant and it has gotten out of hand. Either a police officer needs to be stationed on the corner in the early morning, or Chelsea Square needs to hire its own security. With a shooting last week at the same spot and other shootings last year, it is getting much too commonplace.

[chelseachick69]

Yeah. The shots were heard by me as well. I live on 26th Street and Ninth Avenue. Because I live on a high floor, the sound echoed and I definitely heard 'em. In fact, they woke me up.

I'm starting to get not only fearful of even walking on the "Avenue" after dark, but that because I come home late sometimes, that some thug is going to just decide to point a gun at me and just have at it.

I really think for those of us who will be attending the community meeting on the 29th, should bring this up and express our outrage as to how our what used to be a "nice" neighborhood, has turned into "Thug Central." I'm sick of it and something MUST be done about this. I just hope the "powers that be" will LISTEN to us and do what needs to be done...Expeditiously!

:mad: "CC" :eek:

[marcusny]

I think you have little to worry about some thug shooting you randomly. These are argument style shootings, between hip-hop people I think. I definitely would avoid West 23rd and 9th Avenue from 4 to 7 a.m. any weekend night. Other than that, it is probably OK. Unfortunately, it seems the police are doing nothing. We all need to get involved. Call Chris Quinn's office, Tom Duane's, the community board, etc.

[alexismckinnon]

I do worry about randomly getting caught up in one of these incidents. Even if the thugs aren't targeting you directly, stray bullets could always hit you as a bystander or go through your window.

I don't blame Chelsea Square for the problems (I've eaten there, and they're a nice little diner with reasonable prices--something of an anomaly in the neighborhood now!). They can't control what happens outside, especially someone driving up in a car! I do blame the lack of police presence. It's painfully obvious that we need more police and security in the area. It's good that they have a squadron on 10th avenue every night to protect the Bridge-and-Tunnel folks at the clubs, but it'd be nice if they protected the locals too.

[marcusny]

For all those who care about this:

Police Precinct Community Council Meetings

10th Police Precinct
November 29th, Weds.
St. Columba School
343 W. 25th St. (Btw 8th/9th)

We need to go and express how the community is not being protected. This Weds.

[gatopreto]

Don't thinhk so Gato. I also heard shots about 4:50 am, on 11/25. Four in rapid succession, then a pause, then another shot.

Yes, that's exactly what I heard.

I guess the gun in last week's shooting must have been a different type, since the shots I heard last night were more like "Pop pop" than a cracking boom, as last week's was.

I suppose I was hoping I was mistaken, and it was a bb gun, or a car backfiring.


Do you have the time for that meeting, marcusny?


As Alexis mentioned too, I'm actual getting scared now about the very real possibility of a stray bullet coming into my apartment.


===========================================

That's odd. In my post mentioning the shooting, the last part is now in italics & bolded, which I didn't do. Did you do that, Jonathon?

[gatopreto]

Yeah. The shots were heard by me as well. I live on 26th Street and Ninth Avenue. Because I live on a high floor, the sound echoed and I definitely heard 'em. In fact, they woke me up.

I'm starting to get not only fearful of even walking on the "Avenue" after dark, but that because I come home late sometimes, that some thug is going to just decide to point a gun at me and just have at it.

I really think for those of us who will be attending the community meeting on the 29th, should bring this up and express our outrage as to how our what used to be a "nice" neighborhood, has turned into "Thug Central." I'm sick of it and something MUST be done about this. I just hope the "powers that be" will LISTEN to us and do what needs to be done...Expeditiously!

:mad: "CC" :eek:Do you know if anyone from Penn South managment, or the Coop Council usually attend these meetings?

I also think the London Terrace Board should have some interest in this situation.

[chelseachick69]

For all those who care about this:

Police Precinct Community Council Meetings

10th Police Precinct
November 29th, Weds.
St. Columba School
343 W. 25th St. (Btw 8th/9th)

We need to go and express how the community is not being protected. This Weds.

Oh I care and I will DEFINITELY be there. The only way we can get attention there is to pay attention here (so-to-speak). The words "police presence, are important words; and, they need to be heard! I implore every Cyb'er, to attend this meeting. This will probably be the last of the year. So, please try to attend.

Hey. I just thought of something. Has anyone got any ideas on how we (who may be attending), from Cyb, will be able to recognize each other? Should we carry a rose in our teeth or something? (Just kidding...of course!)

[marcusny]

As of now, I am definitely going to the meeting. I live across from London Terrace, but if you live in London Terrace and want their association to be involved, definitely get in touch with them. I would also suggest calling Chris Quinn's office, etc.

Eventually one of these shootouts is going to hurt someone in their apartment. We need this stopped before that happens. The police need to up their prescence on the corner, not just show up 20 minutes after the shootings.

[chelseachick69]

Marcus:

Do you live in Penn South on the other side of Ninth?

[Jonathan]

That's odd. In my post mentioning the shooting, the last part is now in italics & bolded, which I didn't do. Did you do that, Jonathon?

Yeah, I did it. I wanted to help people see that part of your post. I thought it was important. Hope you don't mind!

[marcusny]

Chelseachick.

No, I live on the south side of 23rd street, one building from the corner. Maybe one of us can post something in the corner building of Penn South? Not sure if they would allow it though. I am letting people in my building know about the meeting, that is for sure.

[chelseachick69]

Marcus:

Phylicita and I are going to try to meet at the meeting on Wednesday eve. We've kind of described ourselves, so we could identify each other. We both would love to meet fellow Cyb'ers as well. So, if you want to meet up with us and say hi, let us know either what you look like or maybe what you'll be wearing. Hope to see you there.

: ) "CC"

[Jonathan]

I'm going to try to make it by there as well. I guess you guys have a vague idea what I look like, so if I do make it and you see me - please introduce yourselves as I have no idea what you look like!

[marcusny]

I will let you guys know tomorrow what I should be wearing, or maybe I will post a pic. I am most likely coming with a neighbor and maybe we can all meet up and stand together on this.

[chelseachick69]

Cool. I look forward to meeting y'all tomorrow eve.

"CC"

[alexismckinnon]

Does anyone have the time for that meeting? I've looked through the thread several times and don't see it. I'd love to go but I need to know when to show up! :p

[chelseachick69]

Hi Alexis: Here's the info you need to attend. Hope to see you there. A couple of us will probably meet up there for the first time. We've left a semi-description of how to identify each other. If you would like to join up with us, please let us know who to look for. After all, there IS strength in numbers and it would be great to have a united front on some these issues.

Later..."CC"

Originally Posted by marcusny
For all those who care about this:

Police Precinct Community Council Meetings

10th Police Precinct
November 29th, Weds.
St. Columba School
343 W. 25th St. (Btw 8th/9th)

We need to go and express how the community is not being protected. This Weds.

[gatopreto]

Just some info for everyone:

Saturday night/Sunday morning there was a 10th precinct squad car stationed on 23rd & 9th until 6am or so. Sometimes a second car joined it for a bit.

Sunday night/Monday morning there were two officers posted on foot outside the Chelsea Square.

Things were nice & quiet. I hope they keep a car there on a steady basis from now on, or at least until the scene there dies down. I hope it's not just a one-time thing.

[NORTH STAR]

Re. the 10th pct. Community Council meeting on Nov. 29:
I called the 10th pct. (212-741-8211) and was told the meeting starts at
7:00 PM.

[gatopreto]

Does anyone have the time for that meeting? I've looked through the thread several times and don't see it. I'd love to go but I need to know when to show up! :p

Nobody posting the info seemed to realize the time was missing - I asked for that too! :D

Anyway, I looked it up, and it's 7:30pm.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/pct/com010.html

Edit: I just saw NorthStar's post above - now I'm confused as to whether it's 7 or 7:30.

[marcusny]

Sorry guys if I left it out the time with my first post on the meeeting. It is 7:30 p.m. Unfortunately, I have come down with something and it is iffy if I am going to make it. I still want to as this is important to me. If I cannot make it, please scream loud and clear and let me know how it goes. If I feel up to it, will let you all know.

Meeting info is on the right side, 10th Precinct info:

http://www.manhattancb4.org/News.html

[chelseachick69]

Oops! You're absolutely correct. Sorry Gato!

"CC"

[marcusny]

Sorry guys, I am ill, but please let me know how it goes.

[bobw22]

Does anyone have any information on what took place at the meeting?

[SNAP]

Pretty good experience. Concerning the shots fired at various times around the area of 23rd and 9th, I got the impression that the best thing to do is for EVERYONE to call 911 IMMEDIATELY when they hear shots. Don't assume that someone else will do it (remember Kitty Genovese?). If you can't tell exactly where they are, tell the operator that it's in the vicinity of your location. The more people who call, the more seriously these incidents will be taken, and the police take them very seriously already. In fact, ditto for noise from the "Club Crowd" (?Mobs?) The best way for situations such as these to be corrected is for the whole neighborhood to let the proper people know as the problem is occuring.

[SNAP]

Just remembered another comment at the Precinct Community Council meeting the other night. The Police informed that 40% of the assualts in the 10 Pct are attributable to the Clubs.

[bobw22]

Snap,

Thanks for the info. Were there any discussions on what is being done by the precinct to offset the club crimes?

thanks

Bob

[marcusny]

To all,

Per the ChelseaNow newspaper the police could not confirm the gunfire on the corner. What????? But maybe not enough people did call in. I did not call 911 as I would think anyone in the restaurants, and they are FULL at 4:30 in the morning would call. But evidently it is so commonplace that no one can be bothered. Anyway, I also saw a police car come up within ten minutes. I guess they could find no shells or witnesses? Like I said, the restaurants are FULL at that time. Amazing.

[SNAP]

Bob,

According to PD, they are flooding the area with foot, mounted and motor patrols, supplementing the precinct's normal compliment of Officers, using undercovers, issuing summonses and desk appearance tickets, making car stops and arrests for DUI, noise etc. This is something to which I can attest; I've actually gone out and seen it.

I think that the REAL problem behind the situation isn't about police responsiveness. They don't want the problem here anymore than we do. I read that the 2000 census of the 10th Pct is some 42,000 people. The clubs have a combined legal capacity of roughly 11,000 (assuming that there's no over-crowding). That means that every Friday and Saturday night, at minimum, the population of the precinct is increased by about 25% IF one considers that there is no turnover in admission to the clubs. If you've ever seen the lines to get in, you'll realize that that 25% is probably a gross under-estimation. If one wants to consider the financial incentive that the clubs have, think about a minimum 11,000 people x door (ie, cover) charge x price per drink x food covers etc and take a guess at what a single night's gate can bring. And it's a cash business. (If you remember the Jimmy Stewart movie "It's a Wonderful Life," you may recall the line that "every time a bell rings, an angel gets his wings;" I wonder if heaven can keep up with the register rings on Friday and Saturday nights at the Chelsea clubs! If you haven't seen the movie, don't worry; it'll be on TV til boredom this season.)

A lot of the problem, as I see it, lies on the political, legislative and judicial end of the spectrum. The SLA issues licenses for these places to operate, and the SLA members are political appointees confirmed by the State Senate; the Chairman's reported salary in 2003 was $120,800; Members were remunerated at $90,800.

Let's face it, if a venue is attracting patrons that need to go through metal directors to get into the place, the owners are aware that they're attracting people with weapons. Simple logic. Actually, I don't understand the logic that takes one into "fun" place where the person next to you may get annoyed at something and start shooting. Would you go to a gym, a theater or a restaurant where the crowd next to you might be armed?

The police are limited in what they can do, short of actually seeing someone with a weapon. I think there's plenty of blame to go around the entire system which includes prosecutors who plea bargain down, arraignment judges who give low bail, trial judges who give slaps on the wrist etc etc. The police are the most obvious and at-hand people to and at whom the community can vent, but the community as a whole has to bring pressure on elected officials at all levels. I'm not sure of the exact procedures, but I know that the police cannot simply declare a venue a public nuisance and shut it down.

[SNAP]

marcusny,

Man, you hit the nail RIGHT ON THE HEAD!!! Maybe all the people in the restaurant thought someone ELSE would call or were otherwise occupied running for their lives. Like I said, remember Kitty Genovese? The call to 911is free and only takes a minute. Getting involved doesn't mean going out on the street; it can be even more effective by picking up the phone as soon as you hear the shots. And, if it really is "so commonplace that no one can be bothered," then the problem is here - not only to stay but to grow.

[SNAP]

I just came across this on the web; attribution was to New York Observer. Perhaps a better headline would be "Police and Community Efforts May be Paying Off!"

A Nightclub Queen Gets Ready to Sell Her Chilly Hotspot
Bungalow 8’s Sacco Says, “I’m Gonna Do What’s Necessary.”

By: Spencer Morgan
Date: 12/11/2006
Page: 1


On Friday, Dec. 1, Bungalow 8 proprietor Amy Sacco arrived at a dinner party celebrating the new film The Good German with her friend Sean Penn. Once there—the fête was held at the Plaza Athénée—Ms. Sacco met up with some other familiar faces: George Clooney, Sam Rockwell, Sam and Eva Mendes. So far, nothing out of the ordinary in the life of the towering glamazon of Manhattan nightlife.

After dinner, Ms. Sacco accompanied some of her celebu-friends to a nightclub. The group, which included the Mendeses and Mr. Rockwell, were transported to the door not of Ms. Sacco’s Bungalow, but instead the annoyingly über-exclusive Rose Bar at the Gramercy Park Hotel. Whaa?

“Amy wants to sell Bungalow,” said a clubland insider that night at the Rose Bar.

There was a time, not long ago, when Ms. Sacco’s Bungalow would have been the obvious, if not the only, choice for such a party. Even Kate Moss showed up not long after—Rose Bar was also the after-destination for those who had attended a charity event hosted by the model and former scandal-on-thin-legs.

But those days are over. “Everybody wants to get off 27th Street, because celebrities won’t go there,” said the source.

Reached for comment on Dec. 4, Ms. Sacco amplified the chitchat. “I’m gonna do whatever I feel is necessary for myself,” said the nightlife empress, when asked if she was contemplating selling Bungalow. “But I’m not going to stay if I can’t get my customers to walk down the block.”

Earlier this summer, shortly after the abduction and murder of Jennifer Moore, 18—Moore had last been served at the 27th Street club Guest House—the city began treating the clubbers’ paradise between 10th and 11th avenues as a war zone. A barricade now blocks cars from entering from either avenue Thursday through Saturday. A number of cops, including several on horseback, patrol up and down the single block during high clubbing hours. They even have their own NYPD station-house trailer parked on 10th Avenue.

“It’s become really oppressive,” said Ms. Sacco. “People don’t want to walk outside and have klieg lights shining in your face and cops herding you like cattle.”

“It looks like downtown Beirut,” said David Rabin, the owner of Lotus and the president of the New York Night Life Association. “You think someone coming in from France or London or Vegas or wherever is going to get off a plane and come to 27th Street and see that as fun?”

And it appears the message has been clear to other club owners on the block. Home, Guest House, Spirit and Pink Elephant also call 27th Street home.

“Two other owners on that block have approached me wanting to sell in the last couple months,” said Alex Picken, the city’s biggest nightclub broker. Mr. Picken was involved in the sale of one of Ms. Sacco’s other hangouts, Lot 61. “It’s like a Mardi Gras over there, and a lot of the high-end patrons—some of whom are models and actors and whoever—they’re leaving the clubs at 3 a.m., and they’re getting harassed on the streets by the other people as well as by the cops. And they’re deciding to take their business elsewhere.”

Mr. Rabin and Ms. Sacco see the police presence in the area as a shortsighted overreaction to a problem that, in the words of Mr. Rabin, “never existed.”

“It was one tragedy,” said Ms. Sacco, who hastened to add that Ms. Moore was abducted near an unlit NYPD tow pound on 38th Street, far away from her precious Bungalow.

Nevertheless, when the NYPD took aim at her territory, Ms. Sacco went into battle mode too. She canceled all her summer holidays to stay with her staff and help them get through the difficult time. She’s been rallying her “amazingly loyal clientele, who have been so supportive.” (They are loyal—Leo DiCaprio had a party there on Saturday.) She’s been to countless community meetings, “which start at 8 a.m.,” she said, with horror. At this point, though, she seems pretty near ready to throw in the proverbial towel.

“I’m this close,” she said. “I don’t need to do this. I don’t need to work for no money, and I don’t need to work in a place that doesn’t want me to work. I’m not going to start charging at the door.”

“Bungalow is very symbolic of New York—here is a lone female entrepreneur who basically launched a block and has brought in so much business,” said Mr. Rabin. “To then penalize that business because no thought was given to how to police that region before is a terrible statement.”

Ms. Sacco said the city is to blame for the overcrowding as well. “The community boards issued too many licenses,” she said. “They oversold, and now they’re coming down on us for it being overcrowded.”

“It’s like, why bother?” she said. “I’ve tried to follow all of the rules. But then they just change the rules. I’m not a mind reader.”

Lee Compton, chair of Community Board 4, is sympathetic to the plight of 27th Street’s nightlife folk. In the late 90’s, club owners were “encouraged to go into manufacturing zones,” he said on Dec. 5. Around 2002, he said, his board started to see an “influx in applications.” Those applications were largely approved. Between 2002 and 2004, the licensed capacity for clubgoers in that area rose from 1,000 to 8,000, he said, which is largely responsible for what Ms. Sacco referred to as the “cluster****” that is 27th Street now.

In his defense, Mr. Compton made the point that the community board “doesn’t approve applications. The S.L.A.”—the State Liquor Authority—“does. We can recommend approval or not recommend approval. Up until recently, the State Liquor Authority was predisposed to grant licenses no matter what.”

“It’s extremely frustrating,” Ms. Sacco said. “The city fails to acknowledge nightlife as an important business. It’s a $9 billion industry for this city. It creates tons of jobs. But more than that, it’s a big part of what makes New York special. It’s like, where else can you wear glitter and hot pants?”

In April, Ms. Sacco will open a new Bungalow 8, at Saint Martins Lane Hotel in London. She expects to open “several” new ventures in Las Vegas by the end of 2007. She said she is not currently looking to expand her empire in New York.

“It’s like the city that never sleeps has turned into the city that obviously took a lot of Lunesta,” she said.


Any comments?

[SNAP]

Found a second, related article

Amy Sacco Declares West Chelsea Officially Over

Wednesday, December 6, 2006, by Lockhart

Perhaps it has something to do with the giant flashing sign at the intersection of Tenth Avenue and 27th Street: USING FAKE I.D. IS A CRIME. Or, more likely, it's just that übertastemaker/club queen Amy Sacco sees the writing on the wall a few minutes before the rest of us.

Either way, we awake this morning to the jaw-dropping news that she's putting Bungalow 8—the club that made West Chelsea and, on a more micro-level, West 27th Street—up for sale. Blame is apportioned thusly: "The community boards issued too many licenses," she tells Spencer Morgan at the Observer. "They oversold, and now they're coming down on us for it being overcrowded. It's like, why bother? I've tried to follow all of the rules. But then they just change the rules. I'm not a mind reader."

What does this means for West Chelsea? Apocalypse. As Eater puts it, "The woman who built West 27th Street Clubland now turns to the daunting task of tearing it all down."
· Nighclub Queen Readies to Sell Her Chilly Hotspot [The Transom]

SNAP ASKS: Next question: When will the developers move in to that area to give the neighborhood some shade from the sun with their 40-storey mega-condos and co-ops?

[chelseachick69]

Snap: Thanks for all the info. The article stating that Ms. Sacco is considering closing Bungalow, is quite informative.

On the one hand, she is correct in asking "where else can you wear glitter and hot pants?" And, the statement that Ms. Sacco said the city is to blame for the overcrowding as well, is also correct. Ms. Sacco also stated:

?The community boards issued too many licenses,? she said. ?They oversold, and now they?re coming down on us for it being overcrowded.?

Well, yeah! Maybe a teency bit'o policing who and how many walk into your club might help a bit. You know, crowd control? Ever heard of it?

Lee Compton, chair of Community Board 4, is sympathetic to the plight of 27th Street?s nightlife folk. In the late 90?s, club owners were ?encouraged to go into manufacturing zones,? he said on Dec. 5. Around 2002, he said, his board started to see an ?influx in applications.? Those applications were largely approved. Between 2002 and 2004, the licensed capacity for clubgoers in that area rose from 1,000 to 8,000, he said, which is largely responsible for what Ms. Sacco referred to as the ?cluster****? that is 27th Street now.

Okay. He's also so right on. They issued too many licenses. Probably a quota thing with the city and stuff. Who the H-E-Double Hockey Sticks knows. The point is, that "they" or "them" or whomever is responsible created one giant monster. It's not about one incident. It's about the residual affect it has on "our" neighborhood. We who live here. We are the ones who have to contend with all the people who come here to party and are coming in droves. "They" the party-goers, just come to Chelsea, party their a__es off and go to wherever they came from. We have to deal with the aftermath. Which, by the way, includes weapons, drugs and whatever this lifestyle brings with it. Because of this major proliferation of party-goers, therein lays the problem. No one has a firm grip on the situation. Not even our beloved NYPD. Although, they seem to be trying and doing the best they can with what even they have been given to work with.

Hey look, back in the day, I was the ultimate disco/party queen. I know of what I speak. I used to frequent clubs all over, all the time. I know this life of "party, party, party." It's so much fun and I miss the fun. But, I guess I just got older and somewhat more settled. Oh and did I mention more exhausted easier or whatever?

It's either got to get better, or it's gonna get worse. That's just one woman's opinion.

"CC"

[SNAP]

This from today's NY Post:

December 7, 2006 -- HOLD your horses - Amy Sacco isn't going anywhere just yet. The New York Observer served up a front-page story yesterday headlined, "A Nightclub Queen Gets Ready to Sell Her Chilly Nightspot," Bungalow 8. But Sacco tells Page Six, "The whole thing is a fabrication." She admits she complained to reporter Spencer Morgan that too many liquor licenses had been issued for her West 27th Street block and that the unwashed masses were scaring away her wealthy, celebrity clientele. "I had calls from about 800 brokers yesterday," Sacco says, "But I'm not selling Bungalow 8."

Re your quote, CC, from the previous article "Ms. Sacco said the city is to blame for the overcrowding as well. 'The community boards issued too many licenses,' she said. 'They oversold, and now they’re coming down on us for it being overcrowded.' " One would expect Ms. Sacco, the "übertastemaker/club queen," to perhaps be aware that the Community Boards do not issue liquor licenses; I believe that their role in the process is to make a non-binding recommendation to the SLA which issues the license. The SLA board, nominated by the Governor and approved by the NYS Senate, also has the largest role in revokations and other sanctions. I'm surprised that the Observer's reporter didn't pick up on this. And, yes, I agree that a business owner could reasonably be expected to have heard of crowd control.

In the Observer article, David Rabin, the owner of Lotus and the president of the New York Night Life Association, is qouted as saying “It looks like downtown Beirut. You think someone coming in from France or London or Vegas or wherever is going to get off a plane and come to 27th Street and see that as fun?” I think that the people of "downtown Beirut" might, at this point, be glad to have the professional police presence that NYLA obviously resents. That comment alone speaks volumes about views and considerations of the community and the world in general. As I wrote before, when one runs a business that requires patrons to be screened for weapons upon entry, one knows the type of patron to which one caters.

I agree completly that "it's either got to get better, or it's gonna get worse." One of my fears, though, is that once the Clubs are gone and the galleries priced out, the developers will move in and turn everything west of 10th Avenue into character-less "luxury" buildings, as we're seeing right now on 23rd between 10th and 11th.

[SNAP]

Just found out that Community Board 4's Business Licenses & Permits Committee will have a meeting on DECEMBER 12, 2006, 6:30 p.m., at Holland House, 351 W. 42nd Street, in the Basement

Among items on the agenda:

New Liquor License Applications
Jeff Waserman or Corp to be formed, 565 W. 23rd Street

Alterations
530 W. 28th Street LP, d/b/a Crobar, Pink Elephant, 530 W. 28th Street

Renewal Applications
Club BR LLC d/b/a Bed, 530-542 W. 27th Street

I've included here only those addresses in the 20's west of 10th Avenue (ie, the "Club Area") although other venues are listed as well. Anyone who has concerns about the violence, noise, quality of life etc from the Clubs and who can attend, should be try to there and make these issues known.

Hope everyone's having a good day.

[chelseachick69]

Ahhh. Point well made Snap. The "Condo Masters" as I like to call them may very well try to vie for position if that occurs. I didn't even think of that. Again, great point.

Thanks Snap!

"CC"

[SNAP]

From the NY Post, Sunday December 10, 2006

BURLESQUE CLUB IS A NO-GO-GO
By ELIZABETH WOLFF

December 10, 2006 -- A famous Las Vegas nightclub owner who has partnered with Sting and David Bowie to open a burlesque joint in the heart of Chelsea's clubland was dealt a tough hand by a potential landlord who reneged on a deal at the last minute.

But Sin City guru Ivan Kane said he'll end up in the Big Apple anyway - New Yorkers can bet on it.

"I'm coming to New York next week, and I'm not leaving until I find a place," said Kane, a native New Yorker who had planned to open the sexy club on West 21st Street as a follow-up to the wild success of his Forty Deuce clubs in Las Vegas and Los Angeles.

Kane found a building and had what seemed to be a done deal with owner Manhattan Mini Storage. The building already had a liquor license, so Kane applied for a license transfer and got the full support of the community board. (emphasis added by SNAP).

But before the state could approve the license, Manhattan Mini Storage folded and reneged on the deal.

"The owner didn't want a long-term, night-life tenant even though the community welcomed me with open arms," Kane told The Post.

Manhattan Mini Storage could not be reached for comment. (end NYP article)

And the beat goes on.

[LeeLee]

Full Support?!?! Someone tell me the positive neighborhood benefits this would have had to support it....with all the other developments in the neighborhood we arent exactly desperate for the economic benefits from another nightclub....and at the last CB meeting one of the top three repeated concern from both the public and board members was nightclub saturation. Can someone explain?

[JetCom]

Well, I haven't checked in for a while, and my,my, a lot is happening.
I have lived on the corner of 22nd & 9th for 30 years now and I assure you it was a rough neighborhood for quite some time. as I am on the 9th ave side on a low florr it has always been good that I sleep like a log. But I have definitely noticed in the past year or so that I have been woken up with street noise at 3-5 am. Amazing!! Live hear for years when it is a hellhole no one will visit and now that it is chic and ridiulously expensive the gunshots ring, girls are abducted and raped, and all hell has broken loose. Go figure. I can tell you from EXPERIENCE that the 10th is a indifferent pct and the only time I see them is occaisionally is two of them standing on the corner in broad daylight at 23 & 8. Must be the velvet rope at night now that Chelsea has raised it's prices 25%. But John, one of the owners is a great guy and I sure he is as distressed by this all as is everyone.

[SNAP]

I won't be able to attend the Community Board Business Licenses & Permits meeting tomorrow night. If anyone does make it there, could you please let us know what the story is.

Thanks,
SNAP

[chelseachick69]

Who welcomed this creature to the community with open arms? Is this guy kidding? I don't believe a word of that tripe! I for one, cannot see a community of families welcoming a strip joint to this neighborhood. NEVER! I vehemently opposed this and will continue to do so going forward! :mad:

[SNAP]

This from the December 15 - 21 2006 issue of Chelsea Now:

Board 4 hopes Spirit gives up the ghost

By Lawrence Lerner

It appears West Chelsea nightlife has taken another shot to the chin.

At a full board meeting last Wednesday night at Roosevelt Hospital, Community Board 4 recommended that the State Liquor Authority not approve a transfer of ownership for Spirit, the embattled West Chelsea nightclub at 530 W. 27th St. that was shuttered twice for alcohol and drug violations last spring and summer.

Dealing with the police violations has reportedly cost the club millions of dollars; so, to keep down overhead, the club is currently open only for private parties.

According to C.B. 4 Chairperson Lee Compton, the board’s decision hinged on the club’s difficult history, as well as the oversaturation problem in West Chelsea, where a current total club-going capacity of more than 10,000 patrons has brought myriad problems for area residents, along with a formidable presence by the New York Police Department, which has been coming out in full force on weekends since late July, complete with klieg lights and mounted police.

“For us, the issues were, we have investors who have invested millions of dollars to create this club. Is it fair to deny them?” said Compton. “On the other hand, they had all of these problems and violations. We got the applicant to agree on a comprehensive list of conditions for the transfer, but ultimately, a majority of the board felt that this was a chance to say no to 1,500 people of that 10,000. So, we rejected it.”

The denial came after the board’s Business Licenses and Permits Committee had voted 4 to 1 in favor of the transfer on Nov. 14, with nine conditions attached, including requirements for all security personnel to submit to F.B.I. background checks, and for some staff to have backgrounds in law enforcement, fire prevention and E.M.T. procedures. Spirit would also have had to install closed-circuit TV cameras; train its staff in the use of I.D. scanners, portable radios and handheld metal detectors; and deploy a community response team to walk surrounding blocks and respond to community concerns.

But in the three-week interim between the two meetings, C.B. 4 had a change of heart, voting 20 to 9 against the transfer on Dec. 6.

“As a board, we do have something to lose,” said Compton. “The applicant accepted the best, most comprehensive set of conditions and said, ‘We will support the incorporation of these into our method of operation.’” He said some board members — including some members who are nightlife operators —were upset that the far-reaching resolution, full of concessions from the applicant, was thrown out.

Compton believes that the State Liquor Authority has turned over a new leaf under current chairperson Daniel Boyle, who has been more responsive to the concerns of various Manhattan communities since taking over this spring.

Compton also senses that Spirit will still pursue the transfer-of-ownership application with the S.L.A., despite the red flag — which is an advisory opinion only — from the community board, but there are two crucial differences to consider now.

“In the past, our denial wouldn’t have made any difference,” the C.B. 4 chairperson said. “The S.L.A. would not have taken our recommendations seriously and the applicant would have been granted their license anyway. But the S.L.A. is now giving us different signals. We can deny and they’ll listen. Now, we have the opportunity to say no and make it stick.”

Furthermore, Compton said that though the board has laid down stipulations for operators in the past, this case represents a shift because the applicant agreed to have the conditions incorporated into the methods of operation of the license.

“It’s crucial to get our conditions implemented into the method of operation when the S.L.A. approves licenses, because then they’re legally binding, and violating them means operators would be breaking the law,” said Compton. “Otherwise, operators can ignore the conditions without penalty. And I think, in this case, the operator agreed to the conditions because they can certainly read the tea leaves as to what’s been happening in West Chelsea.”

The transfer of ownership is being pursued by Spirit’s current owner, Robbie Wooten. The would-be buyer is John Bakshi, known in club circles as John B., owner of Guest House and Home, two large nightclubs adjacent to Spirit on W. 27th St. Neither Wooten nor Bakshi could be reached for comment.

John Blair, the former manager of Spirit who has been a C.B. 4 member for eight years, agrees that oversaturation is an issue, but he believes his former club should not have to pay for the problem.

“The mess there is a direct result of Community Board 4, who gave all the clubs permission to open; the city, who zoned West Chelsea for night clubs; and the state for O.K.’ing all the licenses,” he said. “Now you want to penalize a club owner who invested $3 million because you made a mistake?” he added. “Not all the clubs in West Chelsea will last. There are just too many of them now, and some will go out of biz sooner or later. But if you want a business to close sooner, buy it out via eminent domain. Don’t force it to lose its investment.”

If Spirit does go ahead with its ownership transfer attempt, the new owners won’t be allowed to apply for a transfer of the existing liquor license but will have to apply for a new liquor license, according to S.L.A. spokesperson Bill Crowley. For Spirit, that will include attending a 500-foot-rule hearing, held for applicants when three or more establishments with liquor licenses fall within a 500-foot radius.

Compton is looking forward to speaking at the 500-foot-rule hearing in a couple of months so he can explain his rationale to the S.L.A.

Compton said: “I’ll of course say to S.L.A., ‘Please uphold the community board and deny this transfer-of-ownership application. However, if you do approve it, please incorporate the conditions to which the applicant agreed into the methods of operation that define the license.’”

If Spirit’s attempt to transfer ownership is denied by the S.L.A., it will be able to apply for a liquor license renewal when the current license expires on Oct. 31, 2007; but Crowley said the club’s past history will almost certainly be considered as part of the process. (End of Chelsea Now[I] article)

Something I'm not clear on: "He (Compton) said some board members — [I]including some members who are nightlife operators - were upset that the far-reaching resolution, full of concessions from the applicant, was thrown out."

How can "nightlife operators" serve and vote on a board committee that supposedly regulates them or, at least, makes recommendations to the regulating SLA concerning their existance and revenue? Does anyone see a potential conflict of interest in that a voting member could be swayed to vote against a competing license or vote in favor of a license in which he/she has an open, hidden or less than arm's-length interest, or vote in favor of his/her industry? Maybe I misunderstand what Chelsea Now printed, but it seems an obvious issue from which those haviing any interest should recuse themselves, if not be barred by regulations from voting. Identifying their interests and testifying under oath is OK, but actually voting...?

I wonder also if real estate developers or other special interests have the same capacity on any Board committees

Any comments?