Whats the area like btwn 10th and 11th

[acrew]

Hi
I'm new to NYC (and the US) and looking at renting an apt in 23rd st btwn 10th and 11th Ave.
Can someone please give me their honest opinion on what the area is like there?
I am single female so want to make sure it's safe to walk around at night, not too difficult to get around and get public transport at any hour etc.

Thanks

[momjo]

Well the subway is too far away so at night it is not ideal as it stops on 23rd Street and 8th Avenue and then you would have the choice of walking by yourself late at night or hopping on the 23rd Steet bus from there that would leave you off close by. This area is developed lately with new building complexes all around that area as it used to be full of garages but I havent been down that way lately. It is close to chelsea piers so thats a plus. The clubs are near there also so it can get noisy too.

[catalyst]

While 23rd St between 10th and 11th Aves has certainly improved with the residential development, it is still desolate at night. As a single female, you need to be cautious anywhere you go in NYC. That's just reality. As momjo stated, you're not all that close to the 8th Ave subway. It's at minimum a ten minute walk, or you can wait for the 23rd St crosstown bus, or cab it. If you really want to be thorough, you can try to get the crime stats for that block from the 10th Precinct or Christine Quinn's office. With some objective information you may be able to make a better educated decision.

BTW - Welcome to New York City. I hope that you get as much pleasure, enjoyment and excitement from your stay here as I have from mine.

[tarmill]

Personally acrew, I wouldn't want to live there if I was going to be walking around a lot late at night. Like others have said, it has greatly improved but it's still a bit of a seedy area. Especially with all the clubs nearby that bring in a bad element.

[marcusny]

I think the others are being a bit negative. 23rd St., because of the Chelsea Piers and all the residential development between 10th and 11th has improved greatly. There is extensive foot traffic until later in the evening. Almost all of that block is residential now and quite high end. The clubs are more north and south of that area. There are none on 23rd Street except the one that is attempting to open at 11th avenue. That one may not go through. I do not think you would have any problems walking down 23rd Street and feeling safe. If it is 2 a.m. though, you may want to take a cab. London Terrace is the whole block between 9th and 10th, staffed by doormen. Right past 10th is the Half King restaurant/bar which is open late. This is a safe area and hardly seedy. 10th Ave. is full of restaurants between 21st and 24th going until late in the evening. The high line goes right across 23rd right past 10th Avenue and will be a great amenity to the area. I think you would really enjoy living there, so many things in the neighborhood.

The only place I am in agreement with the others is it is not close to the subway, which is at 8th avenue. You could take the bus or cab from the train if you want though. I live at 23rd and 9th ave. Though it is not 10th Ave. I have been to many restaurants on 10th until 11 or 12 at night and NEVER feel unsafe walking home.

[catalyst]

marcusny:

All good points. However, I take it that you are male, and not to sound sexist, that already makes you less of a target for street crime or assault. There is no question that Chelsea has improved over the recent few years and that the residential and commercial development has moved considerably west. However, any single female should be extra-cautious in the neighborhood at night. Street crime is low, but it still happens. To use the old cliche, forewarned is forearmed.

[marcusny]

Catalyst, I understand your concern and you are right as a male I do not have to worry quite as much. But on the other hand, I lived in Brooklyn and was mugged by gunpoint. In Chelsea I have never felt the same sense of having to look over my shoulder at night. I am careful though, of course, as anyone should be. 23rd street at midnight is usually still full of people though and well lit, etc. The block between 10 and 11 is full of luxury buildings.

Being smart about where you are and going is prudent, but to live in fear of a constant threat on 23rd street might be going too far. I have a female friend who has lived on 17th street since Chelsea was not so nice and she has never had a problem. She should actually just come with a friend and walk the street at 10pm and see how she feels maybe.

[catalyst]

Read the blotter section in this week's Chelsea Now and the following article in today's NY Times' City section: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/nyregion/thecity/21came.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Fulton%20houses&st=cse&oref=slogin

The below is a quote from the aforementioned Times article:

The 10th Police Precinct, which includes Elliott-Chelsea, has seen a rise in murders, rapes, robberies and assaults this year, according to the authorities. And neighborhood advocates said night clubs bordering the projects are increasingly a factor in crimes at Elliott-Chelsea, with clubgoers, often intoxicated, committing them. [italics added].

The weight of the evidence shows that crime is increasing in Chelsea. If you can show me statistics to refute that, I will gladly change my opinion. As I stated, forewarned is forearmed.

[momjo]

Of course the clubs are a constant problem and I would not be wild about living accros the street from any projects these days. If I was someone wanting to move here to chelsea I would be smart to check it out myself as soon as possible as people have different views on things sometimes. Of course there are clubs allover the city so does that mean living uptown near a club is any safer? Just a thought- Could those clubgoers also happen to live in that Chelsea Eliott project by chance? I would think maybe so

[catalyst]

momjo:

That's very good advice about checking out the neighborhood as each person's feeling of security vary. I'm not trying to come across as didactic. Living in a big city, we must always be vigilant.

Marcusny: I'm sorry to hear that you were a crime victim. I don't know what to say other than I hope that you were not physically injured.

[marcusny]

I was injured in the mugging. Not bad, but 3 stitches in the head from the gun butt. That said, I do not think you should ever live fearfully in a generally safe area. Watch your back, sure, and be smart. But Chelsea has much too much to offer to think you have to watch your back all the time. You can read crime stats all day and scare yourself to death. Travel with a friend if you are nervous, but if you have a feeling you cannot leave your apartment you need to move to a different neighborhood.

I have walked home from a club on 28th street at 1 a.m. and there were many cops out, etc. I had no feeling of imminent crime or fear. The streets were full of people. I am not a regular club goer. You would think from someone who had a semiviolent mugging I would be fearful. I really am not in Chelsea at all. I certainly make sure I see who is behind me, etc. Just be smart and Chelsea is a great place.

[catalyst]

marcusny: I'm sorry and I feel for you. I think that you have the right attitude. To live in fear is not to live. Respectfully, however, we all must watch our backs when we travel through this fine metropolis. I'm not nervous, and I'm not scared to go out. Call me a pragmatist, or pessimist, or a paranoid. I may be a little, or a lot, of all three.

I'm not sure how long you have lived in Chelsea. Maybe you are a long time resident. I've lived here 41 years, the entire time across the street from the PJs. I've seen the neighborhood cycle from mediocre to good to very good. Right now, Chelsea is at an almost all time low. Here is what I personally observed within a two hour period this Sunday morning: two vandalized driver's side mirrors on 24th Street between 9th and 10th; two cars with their side windows smashed out on 25th between 8th and 9th; and most disturbingly, one vagrant passed out in front of the cleaners on 9th Ave between 24th and 25th while another simultaneously accosted an elderly lady coming out of the French bakery for money. And pay a visit to the UPS store on 8th Ave between 26th and 27th. At any given time there are at least four drunks drinking on the stoop, yelling and screaming.

This is how Chelsea was in the late 80s/early 90s at the height of the crack epidemic. Now what's the reason?

And of course there are plenty of cops outside of the nightclubs in the west 20s. That area has beocme a black eye in the neighborhood, and there has been so much bad press that the NYPD had to do something. You may may aware of this, but one thing that Mayor Bloomberg and PC Kelly hate more than anything is bad press (remember Jenifer Moore?). However, ask any cop on patrol how may rmps are out on patrol at any given time. If you get a truthful answer, you'd be surprised at how low the number is. And here's another thing: the PSA that cover the various Chelsea projects is located on Ave D and 7th (?) Street. By the time an rmp makes it over here, the perp could be in Canada.

And while I agree Chelsea is generally safer than not, it is experiencing an uptick in crime. I merely suggest that any new resident, male or female, be cautious until they get familiar with the neighborhood.

With respect.

[momjo]

Yes I see those people next to the UPS Store and there certainly seems like a lot more homeless around lately. In gristedes you see quite a few outisde waiting to get to the bottle machine. One lady can spend all morning there with her bottles.There are a lot of people lately passed out as well. It wasnt this bad 2 years ago

[alexismckinnon]

As a single female, I'm of the opinion that 23rd is one of the better blocks to live on, simply because it is wide and more populated. I've walked from 11th to 8th late at night or very early in the morning and I've been fine. Touch wood. The creeps mostly hang out around 8th or 9th, in my experience. The clubbers don't tend to roam around 23rd/10th-11th much because there aren't any clubs there or within a few blocks, and there's nothing there that would attract them. It's all apartments and a warehouse or two. And I'd rather walk down 23rd than one of the side streets, which aren't as well lit, can be lonely and don't offer as many places to seek help in an emergency.

The nearest subway is about half a mile away, as per MapQuest. It's a 10 minute walk which really isn't a big deal IMHO. Between 9th and 10th it is all residential and between 10th and 11th it's mostly residential now too. If you are walking and feel threatened, between 10th and 11th you have about four buildings with 24 hour doormen scattered up and down the street. The street is very well lit now. There's also the Half King, which attracts a sedate crowd and is open late. The cops also tend to patrol 23rd more than other blocks.

The M23 also goes straight to the river, as others have mentioned. If you're coming home after 10pm, the bus has the request-a-stop program and can let you off right in front of your building if you ask the driver. If you are a woman or trans, Right Rides also serves 23rd Street if you are coming home late from somewhere else in the city.

Yes, it's a major city, yes, crime can happen anywhere, yes, carry a phone and be aware of your surroundings. What Marcus said. That goes for anywhere you decide to live, in any metro area. I wouldn't consider 23rd to be a bad choice, though.